cryptique Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 But there is no denying that when they were around they made some of the best rock and roll on the planet. I thought they were a ridiculous band even back in the pre-Fester days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 there should be fewer fans to compete with for tickets. better seats for you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brianjeremy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 there should be fewer fans to compete with for tickets.better seats for you! I hope! I never got to see them! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 And someone tell me what was so wrong about Machina and Adore?? Those are great discs with fantastic songwriting throughout. Were they totally different then the other Pumpkins discs? Yes and that is a good thing IMO. I think the Corgan bashing here has more to do with his original fans getting older and outgrowing the music then it does about the music itself.Adore doesn't even remotely compare to the previous 3 records (4 if you count Pisces, which is my fave Pumpkins release pretty much), but it's still tolerable (even if the lyrics were trite), Machina though was just overblown faux-metal bullshit that sounded totally tinny, metallic, and hollow. look, i worshipped Corgan from 1990 to 1998 or so, i even met him once randomly at the Rimrock Mall in Billings, MT (before their show there in '97), he was very nice and spent at least 15 minutes or so talking with my friend and I before people started to recognize who he was and bugged him enough that he left the Mall, but that said, the drop in quality that his music has made from 1998 up until his horrendous solo record is one of pretty monumental proportions for me. Re: your comment about Iha or D'arcy, not really D'arcy, but i totally loved Iha's playing, and even enjoyed his solo record for what it is (certainly WAY more enjoyable than Billys). as for him being one of the most talented artists ever? ... like i said, i worshipped the Pumpkins for all through middle school and high school, but even I can't agree with that. of the 90's? yes, top 10 for sure, but of all time? he's a ways down, in both guitar playing, songwriting, and ESPECIALLY singing (his nasasly whine always bugged me some, but it fit early on, it got worse/more annoying when the music wasn't as good.) and Brian, as for them live, they were very hit or miss. of the 3 shows i saw, 2 were pretty poor (Fountains of Wayne were way better than them the first time), and the last one in 2000 or whenever the last tour was, was pretty solid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airtaco Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I just want to say that Solace's initial comment on "The Future Embrace" cracked me up, but then made me cringe. That was sooooo awful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brianjeremy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 and Brian, as for them live, they were very hit or miss. of the 3 shows i saw, 2 were pretty poor (Fountains of Wayne were way better than them the first time), and the last one in 2000 or whenever the last tour was, was pretty solid. I have gotten to meet Billy but I never saw them, Zwan or him solo. I think it's just one of those things that I need to do before I can pass from this life to the next. I am much like you solace, we've talked about this before, I was a huge fanboy from 93-99. Machina did a lot to blow my trust in them and their cred. Not that Adore wouldn't have made a bad Billy Corgan solo album, it just wasn't a Pumpkins album. The fact that Machina II was far better than the released album was even worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Not that Adore wouldn't have made a bad Billy Corgan solo album, it just wasn't a Pumpkins album. The fact that Machina II was far better than the released album was even worse.word. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markosis Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Not to jump on a Pumkins bashing bandwagon, but I've heard recordings of them live, and in a live setting Billy is arguably one of the worst singers I've ever heard. Just thought I'd add that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightOfJoy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 What makes them 'overrated'? I won't say I actually disagree to some extent, but i'm just curious. I like quite a bit of their work after Gish as well. I saw them a few times back in 90-91, they pretty much were the house band at the Metro back then. They were a raw, powerful, exciting band. By the time 'Melancholy and Infinite Sadness' came out, they were a different band, IMO-whiny and pretentious. The last time I saw them was the pre-release show for that album at Double Door. I have the handmade ticket as a cool souvenior but the show itself was forgettable. Then they jumped the shark with "Landslide". If Billy takes one more full page ad out in the Tribune announcing some "news" about himself, I may fall into a fit of hysteria. Maybe I'm just disappointed with the end result of their collective efforts-they really could of kicked some ass if they kept their cool and egos in check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imsjry Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 -->QUOTE(Paul B @ Feb 9 2007, 09:13 AM) If Billy takes one more full page ad out in the Tribune announcing some "news" about himself, I may fall into a fit of hysteria. Maybe I'm just disappointed with the end result of their collective efforts-they really could of kicked some ass if they kept their cool and egos in check. Isn't it the music that matters?? He can put as many ads in the paper he wants, as long as he writes good songs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Isn't it the music that matters?? He can put as many ads in the paper he wants, as long as he writes good songs.I think you missed the whole rest of his post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 ...and in a live setting Billy is arguably one of the worst singers I've ever heard.Only in a live setting?? The sound of that man's nasal whine sends me running for the hills. I even went through a bit of a 90s nostalgia mood lately where I revisited a lot of stuff from high school/college that I haven't listened to in ages, and even through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia, I still can't stand 'em. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Zeitgeist is the name of a Levellers album. Not that anyone cares.... Not to jump on a Pumkins bashing bandwagon, but I've heard recordings of them live, and in a live setting Billy is arguably one of the worst singers I've ever heard. I've seen them twice and both times I was bored to tears, and I was a fan. I could have put on a CD and gotten the same effect. Totally uninspired/uninspiring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brianjeremy Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 No James Iha It's official now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Expected, but too bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a.miller Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness was the first album I really fealt like I got ripped off on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brianjeremy Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness was the first album I really fealt like I got ripped off on. Yes, MELLON COLLIE is not quite as good as their previous albums but it's still damn fine for a full 28 song album. Solid stuff considering not many bands would even attempt to think about an album that large. Also consider the batting average, even the filller songs are still top notch. Throw in the abbundance of b-sides/unreleased songs and you have a really massive project. You have to give Billy some credit for thinking on that grand of a scale. Or you can take the eay route and rip him for being egotistical. Either way, it's still an impressive effort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Zwan 2.0 Thats a bad thing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Thats a bad thing? Well, since I get the feeling he'll be pressed to do the angsty grungy sound of SP instead of the happy pop sound of Zwan, yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Thats a bad thing?it could go either way... but Zwan, while i liked a few songs on the record a lot, their one full length just wasn't all that great. It was however, loads better than the last 3 Pumpkins records (i'm including Machina II) Zwan had so much material that never got recorded (or at least released), much of which was way better than the actual Mary Star record. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Calexico Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 but i totally loved Iha's playing, and even enjoyed his solo record for what it is (certainly WAY more enjoyable than Billys). I heartily agree. Iha's solo album was great. Poor ole Bill seems to have lost the plot after Adore. Machina was poor andthat ZWAN thing was an abortion. The little I heard of his solo album made me gag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brianjeremy Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Tracklist: "Doomsday Clock""7 Shades of Black:"Orchid""That's the Way""Tarantula""Starz""United States""Never Lost""Bring the Light""Come On (Let's Go)""For God and Country""Pomp and Circumstance" billboard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 oof LOOK AT ME, I AM SO DARK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 oof you said it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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