Lammycat Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Hunh? Are you watching a rerun or sumthin?Oops. Quickly read that as Tejada and the O's/NYY game was just finishing. And yeah, the "masterful" part should have tipped me off. And the fact that I think I already knew you lived in Texas. Erm..... O.k., Robinson Tejeda was "on." Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 plus, the cubs and brewers are playing in this weather, too.I think it's lame.....yes, they are playing in Milwaukee - what gives?? lame. lame. lame. FYI, the Brewers have a nice domed stadium now. Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 huh? Miller Park has a dome?? (aha....I read here it has a retractable roof - I have never seen it closed - not that I keep tabs) Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Oops. Quickly read that as Tejada and the O's/NYY game was just finishing. And yeah, the "masterful" part should have tipped me off. And the fact that I think I already knew you lived in Texas. Erm..... O.k., Robinson Tejeda was "on."LOL Hey...we haven't seen a lot of pitching gems outside of Kenny Rogers' tenure here, so I gotta give props to Robby. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Went to the Marlins home opener. Spent 50 bucks on a ticket to watch them play like shit and lose. Oh well, at least I have free tickets for tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
alison the wilca Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 oh! i had no idea. that would certainly help FYI, the Brewers have a nice domed stadium now. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 The BOS bats were wretched yesterday. No offense, fanning at a lot of first pitches, impatience, etc. With Julian Tavares (NOOOO!!!!!!) going up against Kevin Millwood tonight, Sox will need to, er, get some runs. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Arod only hits grand slams when it's like 19-2. What a bum. But seriously A-rod is such a douchebag. Padding his stats with two meaningless RBI. Only need to win by one, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Pssht. Mr. April strikes again. Brosius would've waited 'til October. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dear bobbob: In response to your criticism of the closer position, and in the vein of your defense of Alex Rodriguez against those who don't believe he's worth $25M by harping on the fact that he hit a grand slam in the ninth inning last week: Bottom 8th: Texas - J. Pineiro relieved C. Schilling - G. Laird walked - I. Kinsler walked, G. Laird to second - K. Lofton reached on bunt single to third, G. Laird to third, I. Kinsler to second - J. Lopez relieved J. Pineiro - N. Cruz hit for F. Catalanotto - N. Cruz grounded into fielder's choice, G. Laird scored, I. Kinsler to third, K. Lofton out at second - J. Papelbon relieved J. Lopez - M. Young struck out looking - M. Teixeira popped out to third Bottom 9th: Texas - S. Sosa popped out to first - H. Blalock struck out swinging - B. Wilkerson struck out looking The way Papelbon (and Varitek) abused Blalock and Wilkerson was just magical. edit: and for the record, he entered the game with one out, runners on first and third, with a one run lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 The way Papelbon (and Varitek) abused Blalock and Wilkerson was just magical. I was going to say something similar. Yes, there are plenty of cases where journeyman pitchers become closers and get 25 saves but to have a guy who can do what Papelbon did last night really changes the dynamic of a pitching staff. And it's pretty damn entertaining to watch. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 And do what he did consistantly. While there may be times when bringing in the better pitcher (closer) earlier in a game than late in the 8th/9th inning, there is a certain effect a great closer can affect when brought in to wrap up a game. Mariano Rivera is the best closer in MLB, probably the best ever, and the effect he can create in opposing batters who have to face his cut fastball can be huge. I'm not calling Papelbon a great closer, yet, but he's proven a lot since being "the" guy to wrap up games for the Sox since last year. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dear bobbob: In response to your criticism of the closer position, and in the vein of your defense of Alex Rodriguez against those who don't believe he's worth $25M by harping on the fact that he hit a grand slam in the ninth inning last week: Bottom 8th: Texas - J. Pineiro relieved C. Schilling - G. Laird walked - I. Kinsler walked, G. Laird to second - K. Lofton reached on bunt single to third, G. Laird to third, I. Kinsler to second - J. Lopez relieved J. Pineiro - N. Cruz hit for F. Catalanotto - N. Cruz grounded into fielder's choice, G. Laird scored, I. Kinsler to third, K. Lofton out at second - J. Papelbon relieved J. Lopez - M. Young struck out looking - M. Teixeira popped out to third Bottom 9th: Texas - S. Sosa popped out to first - H. Blalock struck out swinging - B. Wilkerson struck out looking The way Papelbon (and Varitek) abused Blalock and Wilkerson was just magical. edit: and for the record, he entered the game with one out, runners on first and third, with a one run lead. Dear Caliberton, I would argue this was the correct way to use Papelbon. You want your best pitcher to come in with a one run and runners on the corners. You don't want to save you best pitcher until you have a three run lead in the 9th inning with no outs, since that is a waste of a pitcher. Also, who is harping on the Arod thing? I made one comment about it. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dear Caliberton, I would argue this was the correct way to use Papelbon. You want your best pitcher to come in with a one run and runners on the corners. You don't want to save you best pitcher until you have a three run lead in the 9th inning with no outs, since that is a waste of a pitcher. Also, who is harping on the Arod thing? I made one comment about it.I would argue that it's more rare than you suggest that a closer enters a fresh ninth inning with a three run lead. Closers often do get four outs, although I imagine it's decidedly less common for them to get five or more. Just a little hyperbole (which I think you've employed a time or two). Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I would argue that it's more rare than you suggest that a closer enters a fresh ninth inning with a three run lead. Closers often do get four outs, although I imagine it's decidedly less common for them to get five or more. Just a little hyperbole (which I think you've employed a time or two). Papelbon: 59 games, 68 innings Among the leading closers in the AL: K-Rod: 69 games, 73 inningsBobby Jenks: 67, 69BJ Ryan: 65, 72 Todd Jones: 62, 64 So I'd say it happens more often than not. I don't know the stats on how often they come in with a 1, 2, or 3 run lead, but I'd assume they come in with a three run lead more often than they should. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 And it's not just closers coming in with a 3 run lead in the ninth that demonstrates how poorly they're used. It's harder to find the numbers, but if you look at situations where a team is tied in the 9th, or down by one in the 8th, teams often bring in someone else in order to save their closer for a possible save situation later on, even though that would really be a better use of your best available pitcher. You won't see that by looking at the numbers for the closers -- you'll see it by looking at the numbers for the other guys in the 'pen. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Papelbon: 59 games, 68 innings Among the leading closers in the AL: K-Rod: 69 games, 73 inningsBobby Jenks: 67, 69BJ Ryan: 65, 72 Todd Jones: 62, 64So I'd say it happens more often than not.I don't know the stats on how often they come in with a 1, 2, or 3 run lead, but I'd assume they come in with a three run lead more often than they should.I believe closers can often be used better, but I don't have any problem with them coming in with a three run lead in the ninth. And it's not just closers coming in with a 3 run lead in the ninth that demonstrates how poorly they're used. It's harder to find the numbers, but if you look at situations where a team is tied in the 9th, or down by one in the 8th, teams often bring in someone else in order to save their closer for a possible save situation later on, even though that would really be a better use of your best available pitcher. You won't see that by looking at the numbers for the closers -- you'll see it by looking at the numbers for the other guys in the 'pen.What he said. Is there an accounting of blown holds? Still, if it's a 2-1 game in the eighth and you can't count on your team to put up runs, I don't see how bringing in the closer in the eighth makes any more sense than holding him for the ninth. You don't have any reason to expect your batters to produce any new runs, and the other reliever you'll need to bring in for the ninth will just inherit that same 2-1 lead (assuming your "closer" holds) that he has just as great a chance of blowing in the ninth as in the eighth. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Hey there! Still, if it's a 2-1 game in the eighth and you can't count on your team to put up runs, I don't see how bringing in the closer in the eighth makes any more sense than holding him for the ninth. You don't have any reason to expect your batters to produce any new runs, and the other reliever you'll need to bring in for the ninth will just inherit that same 2-1 lead (assuming your "closer" holds) that he has just as great a chance of blowing in the ninth as in the eighth. This is true. It's also a waste of your best guy to bring him into a game you can't possibly win. But what about a game where you're down 9-8? Obviously the bats are working that day. I guess I really take issue more with the bullpen ace rarely being used in a tie game though, and so often with a 2 or 3 run lead in the 9th. It seems as though thus far this season, there are more closers being used in tie games though. Just a handful of games of course, so maybe managers will revert back to the old model for the rest of the year, but I've definately seen it more in the last week than I ever recall in the past few years. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Just a handful of games of course, so maybe managers will revert back to the old model for the rest of the year, but I've definately seen it more in the last week than I ever recall in the past few years.Joe Morgan & Jon Miller mentioned that (I believe) Papelbon had zero five-out saves last year, and here he got one in his second appearance of the season, so there's that. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Speaking of Morgan, I was reminded last night why so many people (like me) can't stand him. He was talking about a pitcher's command/control, and how the pitcher (Schilling?) had been pitching everything away, away, away, but on the last pitch he made a mistake by not pitching away (or something to that effect), urging everyone to watch the replay to see what he meant. Sure enough, that pitch too was away (which had been obvious to me when I saw it in real time), contrary to everything Morgan had said in the previous forty-five seconds of mindless blather. The only difference in this instance is that he actually noticed he'd been wrong and backed down from his error a bit (usually he just seems to ignore them). Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Yeah, Morgan spends a lot of time during his broadcasts just making things up. I especially like it when he argues with the radar gone -- there was one incident last year where he identified the pitch as a slider, just before they flashed a graphic of the radar gun, which read like 96 or something like that. To everyone at home, it was clear that it was a fastball, not a slider, but Morgan just insisted that the radar gun had to be wrong, because no one can throw a 96 mph slider. It was pretty awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Looper 7 innings 2 hits ? he can't last the year, can he ? Link to post Share on other sites
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