So, I'm reading "Wilco: Learning How to Die"

[awatt]

Should I read this book?

[ction]

[caliber66]

Tell you why I call bullshit on this version.

Mike Heidorn was still in UT in this version of the story

 

Mike quit in 92.

 

Jay was SO pissed off he did a tour, went to EUROPE, signed a major label contract, went to Austin and recorded...and THEN decided to quit.

 

Bullshit.

He called it "the most divisive incident," not "the reason I decided to quit the band," although if you read the article, he did (briefly) quit the band. Also, if you read the article, it happened not long before they recorded March, so it did, indeed occur before Mike left the band.

 

He describes an incident that occurred about a month

or two before the band traveled to Athens, Georgia, in 1992 to work

with R.E.M. guitarist Peter Buck as producer on March 16-20, an album

of acoustic country-folk that is regarded by many as Uncle Tupelo's

best work. "The most divisive incident occurred one night after a

show," Farrar recalls, his voice trembling as he tries to remain

calm. "I was driving. My girlfriend of seven years (Monica Groth, now

Farrar's wife) was in the van, and another friend of ours was in the

front seat. My girlfriend was sleeping in the back seat and Mike was

sleeping on the floor or something. "

 

Farrar says that he confronted Tweedy when they got home, but didn't

get a satisfactory response. "He was lucid and defiant," Farrar

recalls. "But he also seemed kind of out of it. So at that point I

told him to fuck off, and I quit the band. The next day, his parents

called mine and said that Jeff 'wanted to be me.' I struggled with

that. I didn't know how to take it. Then every other day for about a

week he would call. He was more contrite, and after a week of sitting

around Belleville with no prospects, I decided to continue.

 

"When I spoke

to him about why I was quitting, I basically laid it out for him," he

says. "I told him that the dynamic had changed when Mike left and

that it wasn't fun for me anymore."

 

He didn't say anything about the incident in the van being the reason he ultimately quit.

[WaronWar]

Sorry, Maudie.

 

As far as you answering my questions, here's an analogy: I am asking you what the distance is between Rome and Milan, and you are responding with "BUT I HAVE A GRAPEFRUIT! WHAT'S NOT TO UNDERSTAND?" Just because you are responding to posts that I have made does not mean you are in any way answering my questions. We're clearly talking past each other on the past discussions, so I would suggest just dropping it and moving along.

 

Here's a new question. Just because Greg Kot asked a lot of questions and put a lot of hours into the book, how can that possibly ensure that he i) asked the right questions, ii) got the right answers or iii) put the right answers in the book? If nobody told him about the incident in the van, which seems to have been witnessed only by Jeff, Jay, Jay's (now) wife and one of Jay's friends, how the hell would Kot have known to write about it? Assuming that Kot is right simply because he put some time into writing something, and that his book is well-written, is very specious reasoning.

 

I believe Jay because (among many reasons), when presented with the opportunity of vehemently denying his old friend's accusation, Jeff muttered something about it being better to handle between the two of them. Jeff has spent the last dozen years talking about dynamics within Uncle Tupelo whenever he felt like it - most recently in the Kot book when he pronounced himself baffled at whatever could have come between Jay and himself - and he decides to clam up when Jay finally says something specific about his motivations for ending the band? I'm sorry, but I call bullshit. I don't think any less of Jeff - God knows I did plenty of stupid shit when I was drunk and his age, and probably wouldn't want to admit to some of it - but that's why I believe Jay.

 

Let's take your questions one by one. The first pargraph will be question 1 and so on.

 

1. The distance between Rome and Milan is 389 miles. It really is according italiantourism.com.

 

2. I will put all three parts of your question into one answer because they are questioning the integrity of Greg Kot's research.

 

To tell you the truth, I am sure none of us (including you) can know. The only way is to look at his notes. But out of my own judgement, I give Greg Kot the benefit of the doubt because he is a veteran journalist. He has been working for Tribune since 1990 and has not only wrote reviews, but has solid reliable research on the music business itself. And to quote Kot himself about the book, he said:

 

"Kot: I appreciate the comment about the fairness because I did well over 50 interviews for this book and every anecdote, every story in this book has been confirmed by at least two people. So it wasn't a case of one guy's word, even if the story was really great, you know what? A lot of people embellish and a lot of people forget, and even now I'm finding out even though two people confirmed something, it wasn't the exact date, it happened at this other time. People's memories are faulty and they might believe something in their soul to be true, but you ask four other people what their interpretation of the event is and they have a little different spin on it. So I tried to bring all those perspectives into every crucial incident that's in this book and try to give everybody a fair shot."

 

Also, if I was him, I would pretty piss off right now that someone is questioning his very own research rather than his opinion.

 

3. You are not asking a question on this, but I just read your response to Crowjack on the whole 92 incident and if the girlfriend incident is true does that mean it is one of only many factors of Jay quitting Tupelo. Could other factors have been what Kot brings up in the book?

 

By the way, I do love Tupelo's four albums. Just wanted to make that clear.

[OOO]

i don't like jay or son volt musically at all, but i do believe his side of the story.

[cooperissup3r]

Hmmmm. I don't know the whole story, but isn't this a bit like Eric Clapton vs. George Harrison. Didn't those 2 patch things up?

 

a lot different, actually. harrison, at the time when clapton was lovesick over his wife, was so caught up in his religious studies he didn't pay much attention to her. I mean, he made a record with clapton while all this was going on.

[Lammycat]

Should I read this book?

When this all gets sorted out, I think you and me should get an apartment together.

[bjorn_skurj]

Forgiveness is a highy personal and idiosyncratic thing, and some things cannot and should not be forgiven, but in general, it is good to forgive.

[caliber66]

Let's take your questions one by one. The first pargraph will be question 1 and so on.

 

1. The distance between Rome and Milan is 389 miles. It really is according italiantourism.com.

 

2. I will put all three parts of your question into one answer because they are questioning the integrity of Greg Kot's research.

 

To tell you the truth, I am sure none of us (including you) can know. The only way is to look at his notes. But out of my own judgement, I give Greg Kot the benefit of the doubt because he is a veteran journalist. He has been working for Tribune since 1990 and has not only wrote reviews, but has solid reliable research on the music business itself. And to quote Kot himself about the book, he said:

 

"Kot: I appreciate the comment about the fairness because I did well over 50 interviews for this book and every anecdote, every story in this book has been confirmed by at least two people. So it wasn't a case of one guy's word, even if the story was really great, you know what? A lot of people embellish and a lot of people forget, and even now I'm finding out even though two people confirmed something, it wasn't the exact date, it happened at this other time. People's memories are faulty and they might believe something in their soul to be true, but you ask four other people what their interpretation of the event is and they have a little different spin on it. So I tried to bring all those perspectives into every crucial incident that's in this book and try to give everybody a fair shot."

 

Also, if I was him, I would pretty piss off right now that someone is questioning his very own research rather than his opinion.

 

3. You are not asking a question on this, but I just read your response to Crowjack on the whole 92 incident and if the girlfriend incident is true does that mean it is one of only many factors of Jay quitting Tupelo. Could other factors have been what Kot brings up in the book?

 

By the way, I do love Tupelo's four albums. Just wanted to make that clear.

1. Thanks.

 

2. Cool. I think Kot did a good job with the book. I think it's an interesting read; I just think it's incomplete and one-sided. As to the double-verification, Brian Henneman (who was of course present at many of the incidents described in the book) has said some of them didn't happen at all like they were described in the book, despite their verification. People's memories are funny like that.

 

3. "Jeff Tweedy made a pass at my girlfriend" seems a little major to be glossed over by "other factors," but sure. To suggest that Jeff had no idea why Jay didn't want to make music with him anymore, while at the same time suppressing such a bombshell, does not sound at all impartial to me. Of course, I'm sure Jay hadn't said anything about the incident, and there's no way Jeff was going to bring it up, so I sincerely doubt Kot even knew it had happened.

[WaronWar]

Sounds good.

[EL the Famous]

question: is jay's wife stacked? if so, i can see why jeff would have felt drawn to touch her yabos or comb her hair or whatever. so, really, she broke up uncle tupelo. you can lock this one up now. thanks.

[gogo]

Sorry, Maudie.

Thanks, but not necessary. Just trying to keep a lid on things by blowing off a little steam myself.

[rosebud]

Wasn't Jeff dating his current wife when this is supposed to have happened? Wonder what her take on all of this is. Did Kot interview her? Color me skeptical of the Jay Story. Seems if he could no longer make music with Jeff after the incident then how did he make the Athens Ga album and Anodyne?

[Spawn's dad]

question: is jay's wife stacked? if so, i can see why jeff would have felt drawn to touch her yabos or comb her hair or whatever. so, really, she broke up uncle tupelo. you can lock this one up now. thanks.

 

 

[cough] yoko [/cough]

[caliber66]

Wasn't Jeff dating his current wife when this is supposed to have happened? Wonder what her take on all of this is. Did Kot interview her?

Jay didn't mention her being in the van, so aside from the impact such a revelation might have on her relationship with Jeff (I imagine not a whole lot), there's not much she could say that would have any relevance to the situation. She was interviewed for the book.

 

Color me skeptical of the Jay Story. Seems if he could no longer make music with Jeff after the incident then how did he make the Athens Ga album and Anodyne?

Where did Jay say he couldn't make music with Jeff after the incident in the van?

[JUDE]

Farrar also seems aggrieved by the Wilco book, by respected Chicago journalist Greg Kot, for which he was interviewed extensively.

 

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Jay didn't mention her being in the van, so aside from the impact such a revelation might have on her relationship with Jeff (I imagine not a whole lot), there's not much she could say that would have any relevance to the situation. She was interviewed for the book.

Where did Jay say he couldn't make music with Jeff after the incident in the van?

 

 

So, as I see it, basically it comes down to this:

 

Jay got his panties in a wad (i.e., got upset) because he is being portrayed as a prima dona who couldn't share the spotlight. So, he lashed out with the worst thing he could remember: a drunk Jeff hitting on his girl friend. Of course after this episode, he recorded an album with Jeff; made a trip to Europe and toured with Jeff; lost two drummers, gained one in the band with Jeff; gained a bass player in the band with Jeff; gained a multi instrumentalist in the band with Jeff; signed a major Record label deal with Jeff; went to Austin with Jeff; recorded album with with Jeff...THEN QUIT.

 

I call bullshit. If it's about control, the own up to it. Jeff fired Jay (Bennet) because he wanted his band back. Jay quit the band because it was going in a direction he didn't like and his vision no longer coincided with Jeff's. That's the bottom line. Anything else is character assassination.

[JUDE]

Jay quit the band because it was going in a direction he didn't like and his vision no longer coincided with Jeff's, and Jeff GROPED his girfriend. That's the bottom line. Anything else is character assassination.

 

I concur.

[ction]

I don't get it...is it impossible to believe two people who have grown to despise each other could continue to make music in the same band? Because I'm pretty sure there are other examples of people who didn't like each other who continued to play in bands together (another double singer/songwriter combo from the midwest immediately comes to mind).

[gogo]

According to Jay: Jeff woke her up, talked to her, stroked her hair. No groping, nothing approaching rape. I'm not saying it's not a creepy thing to do to your friend's girlfriend, but let's not exaggerate what actually happened.

[JUDE]

According to Jay: Jeff woke her up, talked to her, stroked her hair. No groping, nothing approaching rape. I'm not saying it's not a creepy thing to do to your friend's girlfriend, but let's not exaggerate what actually happened.

 

My comment was fully tounge-in-cheek.

 

I don't get it...is it impossible to believe two people who have grown to despise each other could continue to make music in the same band? Because I'm pretty sure there are other examples of people who didn't like each other who continued to play in bands together (another double singer/songwriter combo from the midwest immediately comes to mind).

 

The Jayhawks?

[ction]

[quote name='JUDE

[cryptique]

Think umlauts...

The J

[Sir Stewart]

Sug

[JUDE]

The J