LouieB Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Lou - I can't speak for anyone else, but I barely even noticed that you expressed an opinion about Liz Phair's music. It was this line......that made me think we were being elitist and condescending.I own three Liz Phair albums so I know what she sounds like (and XRT used to play Polyester Bride constantly). I was refering to the massive amount of hype that accompanied the pre-release of Guyville. Guyville and Whip Smart are both pleasant enough, but hardly earthshaking or ground breaking. Oh yea, I suppose it takes an unusual talent to sing about fucking and running and oral sex, but Liz's voice is nothing special and her songs in retrospect aren't that special either. In the year prior to the release of Guyville, this was the most anticipated album of any Chicago artist in recent memory (in fact only the Pumpkins and Wilco have ever gotten this much attention) and Liz was pegged as representing the Wicker Park scene and the angst and importance of it . The supposed parallels to the Stones album was hyped no end. That is what precipitated my comment about having to be there (let's face it I was barely there...but what the heck I was here), because this was supposedly a grand statement about gender, cultural, and other relationships in the early 90s. We couldn't wait for the album to come out and I made sure to get the double vinyl release for posterity (I also got the white vinyl release of Whip Smart too). If this was a grand statement on gender politics in Wicker Park, it was wan at best; pleasant enough as I have said. whitechocolatespaceegg is also pleasant enough also, but since then Liz has traded on her sexiness and not much else. She also was an underwhelming performer, playing short and erratic sets and playing rarely in public. Yea, I am condescending. The world is full of great music, but ultimately Liz is a mildly interesting songwriter, not much of a vocalist, and even less of a performer. There was alot of great music made in Chicago at the same time Liz was being hyped. I just don't really understand her attraction (other than her being hot still) this long after Guyville was released and Wicker Park has been gentrified beyond recognition. Take my words for what you will; others here have strong opinions about people, but clearly it is still fun baiting people about Liz Phair. Lizish was pissed at me years ago when I brought up the same issues and I guess still is. In most Chicago circles her career is treated as a joke and her importance to the Chicago music scene is now recognized as minimal. I guess Guyville is a classic, but it is also something of a museum piece too. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I wasn't subject to the pre-release hype, as I'd moved out of Chicago by then. Exile in Guyville blew me away when I first heard it, and it still blows me away today. In my opinion, it's a classic. The problem is, Liz seemed to have shot her wad (so to speak) with that record. I've heard very little from her since then that interested me in the least. On Whip Smart, she still relied partly on songs that she'd demoed prior to Guyville, and the new songs she'd written were, with a couple of exceptions, pretty uninteresting. Whitechocolatespaceegg confirmed for me that she'd run out of ideas, and I really haven't checked in with her since then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lizish Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 You have chosen to ignore all posts from: LouieB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I think you're kind of missing the point of the "ignore" option. Let it go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Basil II Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I think you're kind of missing the point of the "ignore" option. Let it go. Yep..........I like you both here.........let's be mellow..... -Robert. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 All this over Liz freakin Fair. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 All this over Liz freakin Fair. She is pretty hot, bro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 She is pretty hot, bro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tenderloin Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 She looks like Vera from Alice with a permanent head cold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Let me guess. Louie B goes on about Liz Phair - something about Wicker park and how Chicago is the center of the universe. Second paragraph is probably about how he's an old fart who knows much more about music than anybody else ever will and we should perhaps treat him with reverence for having been 'there'. As always it's not really the message that is bad, but the way it's presented.Yea well this is the internet and it is hard to tell what is going on isn't it. And it is well known that I am an old fart, but I was 12 years younger when Guyville came out (what was the exact date???) and maybe even less hip then. Chicago is hardly the center of the universe and Wicker Park is not now, nor was it then the center of even the Chicago musical universe, but at that time it was being characterized as that by the national media. (Guyville IS a direct reference to Wicker Park by the way, not something I made up.) Without this attention, to that scene and to Liz in particular, Exile in Guyville never would have seen the light of day. Liz was an amatur musican (you all know that) who caught the attention of just the right people (someone else probabaly knows all the gory details), this album was recorded by the hippest (at that time) people in town and was hyped to the heavens. Luckily enough time and effort, both from the writing and the production standpoints, created a "classic" and a national profile for Liz. In the meantime (and frankly at the SAME time) Chicago has cranked out a ton of fine music; simply the Touch and Go catalogue alone has many fine examples, not to mention Thrill Jockey, Bloodshot, and a bunch of labels and groups I know less about. ( Some of Liz's fame has to do with the fact that she is female, but somehow Veruca Salt's first album isn't a classic (even though I think it is pretty good....) and has some of the same themes going on and was a product of exactly the same scene. LIz's forthrightness about sex had something to do with the fact that it became famous. In the intervening years Liz has traded on her initial fame and continues to ride her forthrightness about sex. Also in the intervening years she has gotten married, had a kid, gotten divorced and left Chicago. I listened to Guyville quite a bit back in the day (I put the vinyl onto tape, which goes to show how long ago it came out.) I have coped to the fact long ago that maybe Guyville wasn't really an album for me, but I was taken with the idea that it was a female/Chicago version of the Stones (actual) classic prior to its release. Somehow it never really met my expectations based on the hype. So it goes......I don't meet many people here here in Chicago who still have much interest in her. When her albums show up used at Lauries (which the last one showed up within weeks of release) we get a chuckle out of it. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nettles Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 This Liz phair thread sucks! where is all the half naked pictures? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Basil II Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 This Liz phair thread sucks! where is all the half naked pictures? Iwuz begining to wonder,myself..... -Robert. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 That video for "Supernova" was pretty awesome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 If you haven't already seen the half naked pictures then you're ten years too late. Don't even bother. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 If you haven't already seen the half naked pictures then you're ten years too late. Don't even bother.Now that's some good comedy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 If you haven't already seen the half naked pictures then you're ten years too late. Don't even bother. How about full-on naked pics from five years ago? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 How about full-on naked pics from five years ago?Link? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 How about full-on naked pics from five years ago? Well, post em up. I'm game, whether her current nakedness is relevant or not. P.S. The Replacements, Prince, et al. (all from the Minnesota scene BTW) > Liz Phair, Smashing Pumpkins, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [quote name='JUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Do you have some kind of beeper that goes off any time the word "naked" is used? No, I just lurk until my special, uh, talents are required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 $.14 to anyone who posts an animated gif of Beth Howland breaking open the box of straws from the opening credits of "Alice." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 This Liz phair thread sucks! where is all the half naked pictures?I would be up for some of those too.... If you haven't already seen the half naked pictures then you're ten years too late. Don't even bother.Okay..you got me... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 For everyone's enjoyment..here are some items from the year Guyville came out from the Reader...the 10 best list and Steve Albini's response. Set the wayback machine for 1993... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 NSFW and not all that hot...regardless, my guess is that she is one of those chicks who would do some freaky shit in the sack to overcompensate for her plain-ness and I have to respect that. and i also liked that supernova song and the fact she sings about BJ's. i also saw the prestige over the weekend and it was pretty good. thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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