The inevitable sell out post

[socbret]

[EL the Famous]

Beltmann,

 

Well played and I watched Xanadu last night via the free movie section on my digital cable. O.N.J. was en fuego and the part where the hero that kind of looks like the guy from The Warriors is challenging the neon disco Zeus voiced by Dudley Moore's butler, was one Tron away from being some killer FX. Don't even get me started how wonderfully gay Gene Kelly was in his performance. Anyhow, neo-yuppie signing off!

 

Vee-Dub Represent,

Nino Brown

[bobbob1313]

Wilco had a Best Buy commercial the other day promoting Sky Blue Sky. Those bastards.

[EL the Famous]

Wilco had a Best Buy commercial the other day promoting Sky Blue Sky. Those bastards.

 

That's Best Buy promoting Wilco, not Wilco promoting Best Buy. No wonder your GPA was so low...trust-fund private jet to bonnaroo silver spooner. Get in your Hummer and drrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[bobbob1313]

That's Best Buy promoting Wilco, not Wilco promoting Best Buy. No wonder your GPA was so low...trust-fund private jet to bonnaroo silver spooner. Get in your Hummer and drrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

Yeah, but Wilco hate's capitalism/america, so they should've said "no way, Best Buy". But instead they were like "Fuck TheMaker, homeboy gonna get paaaaaaid". Assholes.

[OOO]

Beltmann, I wish I had had you as a teacher.

[TheMaker]

Jesus, I'm glad I didn't. "I don't appreciate your totalitarian tone (?), so I'm going to fire back by effectively treating your opinion as if it were completely invalid." Gee, thanks a bunch, teach. Seriously, though, I'm pretty snarky. Okay, I get it. I also think it's something that's been well established over the course of the last four or five years and is unlikely to change in the near future.

 

Hey, Beltmann, you've got your opinion, and I've got mine. Jeff Tweedy is clearly all right with "The Thanks I Get" being eternally associated with Volkswagon products, and you don't care one way or the other. I do. As a patron of Tweedy's art, and as a rather principled artist myself, the existence of this ad affects my enjoyment of his work. I wish it weren't so, but if wishes were horses I'd ride around on the things all the live long day. I'm just attempting to elucidate my opinion as best I can without having to wade through a litany of excuses for what amounts to a pretty unscrupulous cash-grab. They dangled the carrot, Jeff bit, and that's that. It ain't the end of the world, but it may just prove to be the end of my enjoyment of "The Thanks I Get."

 

Never in the course of this discussion have I attempted to deny Tweedy the right to sell his music to the highest bidder. I'm simply stating that I, and many others like me - including a number of prominent recording artists - find his decision to do so crass, for what I think everybody should be able to agree are very legitimate reasons. Do I care if you agree with those reasons? Could not give a fuck. But you'd better believe I want you to recognize them and acknowledge that they exist. I mean, if I'm honestly supposed to go along with the chicken soup-thin notion that Tweedy is doing this to "put food on his table" (or, far more reasonably, put an addition on his probably already impressive home), then you can at least rise to the occasion by meeting me more or less halfway.

 

I'm sincerely amazed, to say nothing of my disappointment, that so many people on this board refuse to acknowledge that hitching a piece of art to a commercial enterprise can and does cheapen said art in the eyes of many who are exposed to it. If you want to see people who are really acting like assholes, well, cough cough. Yeah.

 

(I came back after all. Blagh. My ears were burning.)

[OOO]

I'm sincerely amazed, to say nothing of my disappointment, that so many people on this board refuse to acknowledge that hitching a piece of art to a commercial enterprise can and does cheapen said art in the eyes of many who are exposed to it. If you want to see people who are really acting like assholes, well, cough cough. Yeah.

 

I think what is rubbing people the wrong way on both sides is people expressing their opinion as fact. I'm not directing this at you in particular, but some people are saying that selling music for a commercial does cheapen art. However, the actually truth is, as you've stated in the part I quoted: Selling music for a commercial cheapens the art for a significant portion of the fanbase.

 

The other side of the argument (myself included) are equally guilty of stating opinion as fact: i.e. No one should care about this at all, it's not a big deal because it doesn't bother me and I can enjoy the song still; If you can't do that you're being stupid.

 

I don't really have much to add to the discussion except to say that it's probably worth making sure you don't come off stating your opinion as fact in post, as it clearly pisses people off when they don't agree with you.

 

We can all agree that some fan's are miffed by this and some fans aren't. It's certainly worth discussing, though at this point pretty much everything has been said, except for this: JUDAS!!!

[oceanman]

I will say that every single one of VW's cars gets better gas mileage than the H1, H2, and H3, you can find the statistics if you need them.

 

 

 

VW Phaeton V12

 

mpg urban=11.8

 

price tag=$95,000

 

 

H3

 

mpg urban=16

 

price tag=$38,000

[bjorn_skurj]

V-12's are HOT.

[oceanman]

V-12's are HOT.

I'm not quite sure if I would spend a hundred k on a VW,or any car for that matter,but damn,I bet it's fun to drive!

[bjorn_skurj]

V-12 Jags are the shit, man.

 

[bobbob1313]

VW Phaeton V12

 

mpg urban=11.8

 

price tag=$95,000

H3

 

mpg urban=16

 

price tag=$38,000

 

Fair enough, the most innefficient VW measures unfavorably to the most efficient Hummer. You've proven me wrong.

 

 

But really:

 

And if the whole world’s singing your songs

And all of your paintings have been hung

Just remember what was yours is everyone’s from now on

 

And that’s not wrong or right

But you can struggle with it all you like

You'll only get uptight

 

 

I think we've all realized that Jeff refuses to have his bag changed.

[tblair]

I think I saw the commercial on Sunday and have been dying to get on the board to see the reaction - I am not surprised in the least by the reaction.

 

Here's my take:

 

You can bitch about this all you want and you have the choice not to listen to Wilco anymore. You don't ever have to buy another record, a ticket to their show, or a t-shirt. Thank God we live in a country where we have the freedom to make

those kinds of choices.

 

As a fan of the band, I would love to know the thought process behind the decision to let VW use the song in the commercial. But merely as a curiosity. It's their music and they can do whatever they want with it as far as I am concerned. These guys have families and bills to pay just like the rest of us, and I'm sure they have some pretty big expenses when it comes to touring. As someone pointed out earlier, Wilco has given the fans so much! Name another band that puts their album on their website (for free) and offers regular concerts online (for free) let alone tours with their regularity and frequency.

 

When I first heard the commercial (on HGTV or the Food Network) I was a little surprised sure. But you know what, I also had a big-ass smile on my face, because I can never get enough Wilco. And the fact they included some of the vocal in the commercial made me smile even more. Moreso than when I had heard "Shake it Off" on Fox Sports the day earlier.

 

God Bless Wilco.

took the words out of my mouth....

The rest of these guys are chumps, man. Don't let them stop you from bringing the truth to the masses. These guys have been brainwashed by the church of Tweedy and can't see the truth staring them right in the face. Don't go quietly into the night, and don't stop fighting the good fight.

 

You guys are just mad cuz Jnickerson is dropping knowledge like galileo dropped the orange.

'brainwashed'!!... at a wild guess, you live in either america (probably) or the uk... just a guess. Now how do you manage to live your life without compromising your beliefs or wishes. It's capitalism, and there's no escape any more.

I have no problem with anyone feeling a little pissed off that one of their idols doesn't live such an immaculate existence as they would wish, but you know, we all have a choice. None of us know the reasons for the song being used in the commercial, and I think it's one of the curses of our unceasing need to know everything about everyone that some of us feel cheated. Maybe your expectations are unreasonably high. Do you think Jeff should get permission when something like this happens? I get more pissed off with every r n b artist that makes a video bordering on soft porn, who then thanks god for their success. You know what I do? I don't buy their music or go to their shows or listen to them at all. I'm sure the artist isn't too bothered either way what I do....

 

as I said earlier:

But really:

 

And if the whole world's singing your songs

And all of your paintings have been hung

Just remember what was yours is everyone's from now on

 

And that's not wrong or right

But you can struggle with it all you like

You'll only get uptight

I think we've all realized that Jeff refuses to have his bag changed.

[Good Old Neon]

Speaking of unanswered questions, I posed quite a few yesterday that you failed to engage with, including this one:

 

But how, exactly, has Wilco betrayed their principles? If their principles include a belief in the power of art, they have released a record that reflects their artistic ambitions. If their principles include a belief that their art should be shared with as many listeners as possible, they have utilized manifold marketing tactics that will help make that happen. I don't think those two beliefs are mutually exclusive. And perhaps the band feels that advertising is, on some level, a kind of art; that may be an unpopular view, but it's certainly a valid position to take. Again, how exactly has Wilco compromised their ideals?

 

(If the band's stated principles included contempt for capitalism, then you might have a point.)

 

No offense, but it sounds to me like you're peeved not because Wilco violated their principles, but because they violated your principles. What gets me about your tone, and TheMaker's tone, is the flawed assumption that your way of defining ethics is the only possible way to think about the issue.

 

'Music Is Not a Loaf of Bread' - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine.

 

"Stop trying to treat music like it's a tennis shoe, something to be branded. If the music industry wants to save money, they should take a look at some of their six-figure executive expense accounts. All those lawsuits can't be cheap, either." - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

 

"Anyone who chooses to listen to our music becomes a collaborator.

 

People who look at music as commerce don't understand that. They are talking about pieces of plastic they want to sell, packages of intellectual property.

 

I'm not interested in selling pieces of plastic." - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

 

WN: Your critics might say that it's easy for you to say that, given that you're already a commercial success.

 

Tweedy: I'm grateful that I've sold enough to have a house, take care of my kids and live decently. But that's a gift, not an entitlement. - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

[tblair]

'Music Is Not a Loaf of Bread' - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine.

 

"Stop trying to treat music like it's a tennis shoe, something to be branded. If the music industry wants to save money, they should take a look at some of their six-figure executive expense accounts. All those lawsuits can't be cheap, either." - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

 

"Anyone who chooses to listen to our music becomes a collaborator.

 

People who look at music as commerce don't understand that. They are talking about pieces of plastic they want to sell, packages of intellectual property.

 

I'm not interested in selling pieces of plastic." - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

 

WN: Your critics might say that it's easy for you to say that, given that you're already a commercial success.

 

Tweedy: I'm grateful that I've sold enough to have a house, take care of my kids and live decently. But that's a gift, not an entitlement. - Jeff Tweedy - Wired Magazine

all of those quotes relate to how Jeff wants his music to be sold, which I think is different to how it might be used to sell something else. His music, the cd's, the shows, are still the same as they were...

[Good Old Neon]

all of those quotes relate to how Jeff wants his music to be sold, which I think is different to how it might be used to sell something else. His music, the cd's, the shows, are still the same as they were...

 

With all do respect, that is a rather weak defense. Jeff is an artist, not a car salesman.

 

There are many many more interviews out there similar to this one, many of them available only in print form, going back to the early nineties – Forced Exposure – Alternative Press – Magnet Magazine – many of them make reference to Jeff’s disgust with the commercial state of music. I will dig them out of the attic when time permits.

 

I did not come to this conclusion overnight, based only on my own personal feelings – Jeff has stated as much or more in the past.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Seriously, post outside your one and only thread. It might put some hair on your chest or something.

[Good Old Neon]

Seriously, post outside your one and only thread. It might put some hair on your chest or something.

 

I fully intend to, as stated earlier, I'm having a hard enough time keeping up with this one.

 

Is that the only response you could muster?

 

Don

[owl]

jnickerson, you've given this thread enough juice, and stated your opinion 69 times. Do you need everyone to agree with you before you let it go?

 

At the bottom right hand of the page, there are Moderation Controls. Please lock this thread and put it out of its misery.

[tblair]

With all do respect, that is a rather weak defense. Jeff is an artist, not a car salesman.

 

There are many many more interviews out there similar to this one, many of them available only in print form, going back to the early nineties – Forced Exposure – Alternative Press – Magnet Magazine – many of them make reference to Jeff’s disgust with the commercial state of music. I will dig them out of the attic when time permits.

 

I did not come to this conclusion overnight, based only on my own personal feelings – Jeff has stated as much or more in the past.

It's not really a defense at all, as I (especially 'I') don't feel the need to defend Jeff's motives, especially as we have no clue as to what they might be. I'm just explaining how I see a difference. If the song had been written especially for the car ad, that might be different.... maybe he did(!), but for now, all of this is nothing more than speculating.

Maybe you could make more use of your time by writing to the management and asking why?....

...you never know.

[Good Old Neon]

jnickerson, you've given this thread enough juice, and stated your opinion 69 times. Do you need everyone to agree with you before you let it go?

 

At the bottom right hand of the page, there are Moderation Controls. Please lock this thread and put it out of its misery.

 

Beltmann posed a question, I answered it.

 

Are you being forced into re-visiting this thread?

[tblair]

jnickerson, you've given this thread enough juice, and stated your opinion 69 times. Do you need everyone to agree with you before you let it go?

 

At the bottom right hand of the page, there are Moderation Controls. Please lock this thread and put it out of its misery.

speaking of choice....

[Spawn's dad]

Please lock this thread and put it out of its misery.

 

there is one thread in the forum that reads The inevitable sell out post

 

don't click and you won't need to worry if it's closed or not.

[M. (hristine]

I think that this is a perfectly good thread and discussion.