Reni Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 it is difficult to address this issue without being labeled some kind of "ist" well maybe if those Mormons and Catholics stopped having so many freakin kids..... I keed. I keed. Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 The evil is man's, not God's.When people complain about the evils of religion, what they're really complaining about is man's inevitable corruption of faith. It's tempting to say that, in the aggregate, organized religion (a man-made creation) probably has done more harm than good--what with all the war, bigotry, intolerance, and repression--but it's impossible to truly quantify. It's probably safer to say, though, that individualized, personal spirituality has added immeasurable good to the world. Those two distinct sides of faith should not be confused. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 and silly hats... Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 well maybe if those Mormons and Catholics stopped having so many freakin kids..... I keed. I keed. Hahaha, I'm not sure I'm ready to stop having kids yet Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I will do my best to respond as best I can, at the moment, dinner calls, or the making of dinner to be more exact. Just to clarify one point Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hahaha, I'm not sure I'm ready to stop having kids yet you are a braver woman than I. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 When people complain about the evils of religion, what they're really complaining about is man's inevitable corruption of faith. It's tempting to say that, in the aggregate, organized religion (a man-made creation) probably has done more harm than good--what with all the war, bigotry, intolerance, and repression--but it's impossible to truly quantify. It's probably safer to say, though, that individualized, personal spirituality has added immeasurable good to the world. Those two distinct sides of faith should not be confused. As per usual Beltmann, you've done a much job summing up my argument that I ever could - I should have made myself clear - I was, for the most part, referring to organized religion. Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 you are a braver woman than I. Eh, it's not so bad. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I actually have 4 kids. Oh and for the record, we're more socially responsible than most families with one or two kids. I've already been told anyone who has more than one kid is socially irresponsible - by someone who drives an SUV Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 You have 4 completely ADORABLE kids!! I feel my ovaries doing backflips now and again.....we hope to add to the clan someday. Though I think having a 13 year old actually causes your reproductive organs to freeze - it's like.....do I want to do this to myself AGAIN?? For now, I enjoy the role of doting "auntie" on my friends' kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hate those things.I did too. We got some free ones a few years back from the DWP and tried to put them in and had a hard finding a light fixture they'd fit in, and when we finally did the damn thing was so dim it was a joke. Well, fortunately they've got them a bit more fine tuned now. They're way smaller so they'll fit in most lights quite easily, and once warmed up (which takes about 10-15 seconds) are just as good as a regular bulb. Plus, they last for over 10 years. If you're getting them go for a wattage above what your light suggests - seems like they overstate their light output. And don't get some off-brand cheapo ones either. We tried some like that and they were laughable. Claimed to be 90W and couldn't light up a closet, let alone an entire room. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Forget saving the planet - be a cheapskate!I hope you don't mind but that sounds so much like me I can't believe it! It's going in my sig. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I hope you don't mind but that sounds so much like me I can't believe it! It's going in my sig. The new signatures are here! The new signatures are here! It's attention like this that's going to get me places! Several people in this thread talked about the doom and gloom aspect to the environmental movement being so off-putting, not to mention your hardcore conservatives and "independents" who just aren't going to ever be on board with it. It's time for an alternative message. Not only can you save money by being "green," you can make money by using cost-saving alternatives (don't call it eco-friendly, they'll never buy it) in your business or jump on the eco bandwagon and embrace the trendiness of it all and put out a product that the granola types will buy by the canvas bagfull at Whole Foods. People are just thinking about this stuff the wrong way. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 "independents"I assume this is in quotes because those people aren't realy independents, but are just republicans. I don't believe that global warming is the end of the world and I'm a registered democrat. So, there's that. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'm the executive director of a religious foundation so I guess I suck. Imagine my finding out today that my life's work has not only been a waste of time but a part of the problem itself.move the dicussion forward? you've got to be kidding. You haven't let a discussion move forward yet, but repeatedly mire them in increasingly obscure layers of nonsense. Why is it nonsense? Because I state my opinions loudly and don't back down from them? Because I treat religion like any other opinion I disagree with? Or because it makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge that atheists have valid arguments? Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Why is it nonsense? Because I state my opinions loudly and don't back down from them? Because I treat religion like any other opinion I disagree with? Or because it makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge that atheists have valid arguments? Dude - you come off strong plus you are new and not part of any special group here (as I told you before) - so you are going to catch hell. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Why is it nonsense? Because I state my opinions loudly and don't back down from them? Because I treat religion like any other opinion I disagree with? Or because it makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge that atheists have valid arguments? No, it's because you make it sound like anyone who believes in anything but science is some kind of barely functional retarded man child. Dude - you come off strong plus you are new and not part of any special group here (as I told you before) - so you are going to catch hell. Yeah, thats why. It's not because he's condescending in his way of getting his opinion out. Most people here disagree with Ikol about everything, but he's not mean, so nobody cares. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 It might be worth noting that ikol took his lumps for a long while. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I assume this is in quotes because those people aren't realy independents, but are just republicans. I don't believe that global warming is the end of the world and I'm a registered democrat. So, there's that. I was just goofin' on ikol. He always claims the independent role, but is always there to tow the GOP party line. Not trying to be mean about it. I just get a chuckle from him being a registered independent, like he'd be there in the voting booth in Nov of '08 asking himself, 'Hmm. Should I vote for Hillary or Romney? This is a hard one. Oooo! I know! I think I've got a coin in my pocket.' Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 It might be worth noting that ikol took his lumps for a long while. Ain't that the truth. But you know, I really respect both his opinions and his choice of beers, even though I like his choice of beers way better than most of his opinions Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Or because it makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge that atheists have valid arguments? My degree is in philosophy and my thesis was a refutation of the existence of god. I'm fairly comfortable with atheists having valid arguments having put them forth previously (with honors I might add). Your argument that people care what the content of your views are or how strongly you put them forth is hollow and without meaning. It's how you put forth your arguments, the shape shifting they undergo, and the condescending attitude that is carried within them. Uncomfortable is, as Bobbob points out, is the broad brush you use. Your arguments basically all assume that there is one religion named Roman Catholicism. For instance, your attempt to pigeon hole me in the "sky god" crue instead of seeing I'm only concerned with religious tolerance and freedom for people to believe what feels right to them. There's also your unfortunate tendency to stand on your lofty higher ground thumbing your nose at anyone who's view differ from your all the while talking out the other side of your mouth about your standards of decorum. Lastly, every debate you enter turns into the jnickerson show. You have more than double the posts of anyone else here and the person with the second most had only been here for comic relief until you attacked him. That's pretty telling in and of itself. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 My degree is in philosophy and my thesis was a refutation of the existence of god. I'm fairly comfortable with atheists having valid arguments having put them forth previously (with honors I might add). Your argument that people care what the content of your views are or how strongly you put them forth is hollow and without meaning. It's how you put forth your arguments, the shape shifting they undergo, and the condescending attitude that is carried within them. Uncomfortable is, as Bobbob points out, is the broad brush you use. For instance your arguments basically all assume that there is one religion named Roman Catholicism. For instance, your attempt to pigeon hole me in the "sky god" crue instead of seeing I'm only concerned with religious tolerance and freedom for people to believe what feels right to them. There's also your unfortunate tendency to stand on your lofty higher ground thumbing your nose at anyone who's view differ from your all the while talking out the other side of your mouth about your standards of decorum. Lastly, every debate you enter turns into the jnickerson show. You have more than double the posts of anyone else here and the person with the second most had only been here for comic relief until you attacked him. That's pretty telling in and of itself. I Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 And you Link to post Share on other sites
Calexico Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 So, what's going on here then? Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 No, it's because you make it sound like anyone who believes in anything but science is some kind of barely functional retarded man child.Yeah, thats why. It's not because he's condescending in his way of getting his opinion out. Most people here disagree with Ikol about everything, but he's not mean, so nobody cares. I stand by what I said. Link to post Share on other sites
Calexico Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I stand by what I said. Be careful of those varicose veins. Link to post Share on other sites
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