Things I think are wrong with this country

[MattZ]

You've made a choice to prioritize fulfillment in your career choice/lifestyle ...

 

These are all great and fair points. I suppose I probably fall into the bucket of folks that ended up "selling out" (for lack of a better term) because I thought it was important for me to take care of my family and not leave it up to chance. So, I know exactly where you are coming from.

 

I am just always frustrated by the lack of compassion that goes into the debate. I dont say that to suggest you feel otherwise -- just that that is what I found refreshing about TheMaker's post and the experiences he's had with the canadian system. Seems to me that so many people in this debate, as a general matter (again, I don't mean you) make economic arguments or theoretical arguments, and never acknowledge that these aren't points to be made in a theory class in college. These arguments have a real life impact on a real person, who is sick and scared, that may or may not get the treatment they need. And for me, to think that someone like that is turned away from care because we are arguing about the amorphous concept of "big govt" or because this person didnt become a lawyer like I did, is bizarre and in some cases hypocritical and, well, lacking compassion.

 

There's no right answers here, and I suppose that's why we have not figured this out yet as a country.

[Beltmann]

I do believe your quote about "selling your soul and wearing a suit" sums it up for me. I decided at an early age to pick a career and I made sure that career/job/employment would offer benefits. (HC, vision, dental)

This would indeed be a great system--except there simply are not enough jobs like that for everybody. Essentially, your argument goes: I got mine, screw everybody else. There are plenty of hard-working people who "sold their soul" and are still denied benefits, coverage, or both, and deserve's got nuthin' to do with it. Through unfortunate circumstances, both of my parents are now at jobs without benefits of any kind, and I'm willing to bet both of them still work their asses off in a way you could never possibly imagine. But screw them, eh?

 

I have great health care benefits. Great. I can't complain. But I would gladly trade down a little bit--say, longer waiting times for non-emergency situations--in order to have the privilege of helping ensure that all of my fellow Americans could have similar quality care.

 

El Kev, I understand your concern about the budget and economy, but have you read the reports that suggest our current system, with its excessive insurance costs, is actually crippling American business? Universal health care may actually help spur the economy, or so the argument goes.

[TheMaker]

Dreamin' has got it bang-on once again!

 

The prioritization of corporate interests over the public good is the biggest problem in the U.S. with regards to healthcare. Big pharma is big business down there, with pharmaceutical corps posting bigger profits than virtually any other kind of business. It ain't criminal, but it sure is disgusting.

 

The kicker is that there's more money floating around on the demand side in the U.S. to fund public healthcare than in any other Western nation. At present, only the pig-rich can afford "the best healthcare in the world," while an uncomfortable number of Americans are at the mercy of uncaring HMOs, weary professionals and any number of other horrors. The idea that the private sector could ever hope to be more efficient at adminstering healthcare than the government is based on a fallacy that's as obvious to most as the fat profit margins of corporations like Pfizer and Merck.

 

A psychological paradigm shift is required before any kind of governmental shift can occur. Americans have to get past the idea of doctors-as-businessmen (which is terrible) and begin looking at the actual results that healthcare exists in order to bring about vs. the results they're actually getting. A leveraged single-payer system could work in the U.S., and it could well end up being a cheaper, as well as a more efficient, alternative to the corporate clusterfuck that causes innumerable headaches today. According to all the information I've ever been exposed to (and believe me, I'm far from a selective newspaper reader), Medicare's administrative costs are significantly lower than those of HMOs and PPOs, so if that isn't an encouraging sign, I really don't know what is. And come on, you're going to fucking tell me with a straight face that getting raped and sodomized by Big Pharma is remotely representative of the American spirit? GET RID OF THE BLOATED COSTS. I mean, fucksake, enough's quite enough. I thought Americans liked cheap stuff and getting things their way above nearly all else? You know, aside from getting even with special interest groups. Special interest groups like...? Healthcare lobbyists!

 

It won't happen. There won't be any great change. I know there won't be, but there's no reason there shouldn't be, aside from the fact that millions of detestable jobs are dependent on a system that exists only to inflict suffering on America's lowest classes. Insurance company stooges, administrators, lobbyists, d-bags with executive salaries whose greatest claim to fame is denying coverage to the sick and the dying. And the dangers of a nasty, socialist single-payer system have certainly been reiterated enough times by American politicians that they're causing even the typically liberal VC masses to question the effectiveness of such a system. "They want to take away your ability to choose what kind of care your family receives!" No, not at all. You want a two-tier system, go nuts. Nothin' stoppin' ya.

 

It kills me. It really does. I think I'm departing this thread effective immediately.

[TheMaker]

Okay, I lied:

 

This would indeed be a great system--except there simply are not enough jobs like that for everybody. Essentially, your argument goes: I got mine, screw everybody else. There are plenty of hard-working people who "sold their soul" and are still denied benefits, coverage, or both, and deserve's got nuthin' to do with it. Through unfortunate circumstances, both of my parents are now at jobs without benefits of any kind, and I'm willing to bet both of them still work their asses off in a way you could never possibly imagine. But screw them, eh?

 

Yes! This is beautiful, Beltmann. What of the millions of Americans toiling in the service industry, for example? "Better start saving your tip money!" And what of retirees who are denied benefits? "Well, you're old, so... um."

 

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, there is no rigid axis which neatly matches "hard work" with "comfortable income." Among the hardest working people I know (and I hope you'll pardon me for including myself in this group), just as many have met with struggle as have met with great success.

 

It's something to think about. The last two responses in this thread have really done a lot to unsour my frame of mind. I mean that sincerely.

[M. (hristine]

I have appreciated your thoughful responses. Thank you.

[ikol]

One thing I don't understand is why the problems with America's healthcare system are used to argue that privatized healthcare doesn't work. I would love to find out where this privatized healthcare is.

[Tweedling]

I love my job. (just to clear that up)

 

I would like to say thank you to Bjorn for this thread. It is good to hear different sides of stories. Even if there is some name-calling. I mean that....no sarcasm.

[stooka]

There's no right answers here, and I suppose that's why we have not figured this out yet as a country.

 

 

The most compelling and realistic statement about healthcare so far.

[DueReflection]

Moe Syzlak:

 

"you know what i blame this on the complete breakdown of?

 

 

 

 

society."

[TheMaker]

One thing I don't understand is why the problems with America's healthcare system are used to argue that privatized healthcare doesn't work. I would love to find out where this privatized healthcare is.

 

Pretty funny, I guess, as gallows humour goes. I wouldn't be laughing if I had to mortgage my home to pay for heart surgery or if I'd been denied care by my HMO for a completely arbitrary reason, though. In fact, I'd probably find your comments unforgivable in those instances.

[PigSooie]

I have learned a lot of things from this thread.

[Bubs101]

An Irishman's opinion of what's wrong with America in order.

 

Number 1: American Extremists- There is nothing more annoying than an American who believes in something utterly proposterous like Evangelicals and the such. Personally, I'd much rather run into an Islam extremist than an Evangelical one.

 

Number 2:American tourists- American's make very bad tourists. They talk too loud, don't speak the language and tend to want to eat the exact same thing as they'd get at Sal's diner at home, despite the fact that they're on the Champs Elysee.

 

Number 3: The term African-American- Thay are BLACK, not African-American.Not all Blacks come from Africa. Take Obama for instance, he won't be the first Afircan-American President, he's from Hawaii. Hell, he's not even black

 

Number 4: American Soccer Commentators- First off, it's FOOTBALL. Also, if the commentator gets really really really excited it doesn't transcend to the viewer. The presentation is so slick and good in the UK and Ireland but across the pond it's impossible to watch. I feel for you guys.

 

Number 5:American accents that end everything in a question mark-It's really annoying?

 

Number 6:America and Islam- Not only is this a political problem but a problem on the ground. How can American's be so scared of an attack? It's insanely stupid. The chances of it happening to you are so small and I would guarantee you that there are maximum 7 States that terrorists would attack. Just move to Hawaii and be happy.Also, I hate any American who booed the Iranian President. An intelligent world leader comes to speak in supposedly the 3rd best college in the world and gets booed out the building. Would not happen in Oxford or Cambridge.

 

Number 7:Cancelling Firefly- God damn you Fox (could be an Australian problem but I'm running out of things)

 

Number 8:Perception that everyone likes Americans- Funny one this. Americans always think that they are welcomed everywhere with unconditional love but tend to be spoken off in less higher esttem behind their backs. Not like us Irish

 

Number 9:Tyra Banks and America's Next Top Model-None of those girls ever reach the top yet Tyra and her minions take up endless TV Square time

 

Number 10:The need for Americans to make their own versions of British Tv Shows- Why, the Office is perfect, American office not so much and I suspect the I.T. Crowd will go the same way. Some things are better in Britain, sitcoms being one. Could you imagine if they remade Father Ted ?

 

P.S. I'm Sorry

[cryptique]

Number 4: American Soccer Commentators- First off, it's FOOTBALL.

Yes, but we have a different sport here that appropriated the term and then became really huge, resulting in the need for an alternate term to avoid confusion. We had to call it something, and I think a name based on the phrase "Association football" is a pretty decent compromise. I tend to refer to it as "football" anyway.

 

No argument with the rest of your screed ... though I'd make one observation about your "American tourists" item: British tourists really aren't any better.

 

Also: I never watched "Firefly," and though I do prefer the British version of "The Office," the American one has been surprisingly good.

[ikol]

Pretty funny, I guess, as gallows humour goes. I wouldn't be laughing if I had to mortgage my home to pay for heart surgery or if I'd been denied care by my HMO for a completely arbitrary reason, though. In fact, I'd probably find your comments unforgivable in those instances.

 

I didn't say it was completely socialized either. Maybe you would be able to afford health insurance that would pay for your hypothetical heart surgery if you as an individual could get the same tax break as a business for buying your own health insurance or if insurance wasn't kept artificially expensive by laws arbitrarily mandating what health insurance had to cover. And my comments didn't ask for your forgiveness.

[Bubs101]

No argument with the rest of your screed ... though I'd make one observation about your "American tourists" item: British tourists really aren't any better.

Luckily I'm Irish and everyone loves us. Jeff loved us enough not to cancel his gigs here, yet

 

In fairness to them, with the exception of France, where Brits tend to try and piss off the locals, they are a little better

[Calexico]

I don't see a whole lot wrong with American tourists. Fair play to them. Being stuck somewhere with a marauding bunch of drunken English people on holidays is a whole lot worse.

 

 

The Office, on the other hand, sucks balls. Both versions of it.

[Lammycat]

Number 2:American tourists- American's make very bad tourists. They talk too loud, don't speak the language and tend to want to eat the exact same thing as they'd get at Sal's diner at home, despite the fact that they're on theNumber 5:American accents that end everything in a question mark-It's really annoying?

 

Number 6:America and Islam- Not only is this a political problem but a problem on the ground. How can American's be so scared of an attack? It's insanely stupid. The chances of it happening to you are so small and I would guarantee you that there are maximum 7 States that terrorists would attack. Just move to Hawaii and be happy.Also, I hate any American who booed the Iranian President. An intelligent world leader comes to speak in supposedly the 3rd best college in the world and gets booed out the building. Would not happen in Oxford or Cambridge.

I'll respond to these two. So now "things that are wrong with (America)" include doing things outside of our borders? Of course we don't speak foreign languages; besides "love," English is the International language. Unless you're in our country. Then it's about a 50-50 split with Spanish.

 

And being over-protective against terrorist attacks? The chances may be very, very small that it happens to "me" but memories are still very, very vivid of when it happened last. Perhaps you don't understand the impact terrorist attacks have made on people over here being half a world away. I don't know.

 

I'm not so sure there's the pervasive feeling of fear that you perceive there is over here, either. Security at airports, even though they've laxed the past few years, are still on high/paranoia alert. That's the world we live in now. Personally, I'll take the slight inconvenience of security measures in lieu of the slim yet possible alternative without the security.

[Calexico]

Yeah, I will take the inconvenience of airport security over anything endangering people too. I was hauled out of the line for the plane to New York in Dec 2005 when the Homeland Security guys at Shannon saw my Irish passport and then read my place of birth. They told me that ideally I should have a US passport the next time I travelled to the US to avoid any hassles like being pulled out of the line again.

 

 

So now, I have two passports and no feckin' cash to travel!

 

 

I have also felt a whole lot more comfortable travelling thru many Eastern European and Asian countries than I ever did going thru Belfast or any part of the North during what is so stupidly termed as "The Troubles".

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Number 3: The term African-American- Thay are BLACK, not African-American.Not all Blacks come from Africa. Take Obama for instance, he won't be the first Afircan-American President, he's from Hawaii. Hell, he's not even black

That doesn't make any sense. If anyone could be dubbed African-America, it would be Obama, as his father was Kenyan.

[ction]

That doesn't make any sense. If anyone could be dubbed African-America, it would be Obama, as his father was Kenyan.

 

Kenya is one of the Hawaiian islands.

[Good Old Neon]

I

[EL the Famous]

This would indeed be a great system--except there simply are not enough jobs like that for everybody. Essentially, your argument goes: I got mine, screw everybody else. There are plenty of hard-working people who "sold their soul" and are still denied benefits, coverage, or both, and deserve's got nuthin' to do with it. Through unfortunate circumstances, both of my parents are now at jobs without benefits of any kind, and I'm willing to bet both of them still work their asses off in a way you could never possibly imagine. But screw them, eh?

 

I have great health care benefits. Great. I can't complain. But I would gladly trade down a little bit--say, longer waiting times for non-emergency situations--in order to have the privilege of helping ensure that all of my fellow Americans could have similar quality care.

 

El Kev, I understand your concern about the budget and economy, but have you read the reports that suggest our current system, with its excessive insurance costs, is actually crippling American business? Universal health care may actually help spur the economy, or so the argument goes.

 

I'm not saying we should 'screw' anybody...as long as there are certain provisos that can discern between providing coverage to those who are making an effort to work/legitimately cannot work and those who just don't give a fuck AND there is no change to the quality of healthcare for my family and I, cool. The problem is, unless those stats provided earlier are false, it's not just about a little longer wait for your yearly checkup.

 

All of these examples of people who are working their asses off/have legitimate reasons for not being able to work and still don't receive healthcare benefits of some sort...I completely agree that's wrong. That said, I really do have to ask if that is the majority of the cases...seriously, I don't know, but would like to.

 

I get frightened when the system continues to throw its hands up in the air and lightens people of accountability for themselves and/or their families. Compassion is great...really...but it's not really that compassionate to breed a society that has no desire to fend for itself. There has to be some common ground where we still take care of those who can't take care of themselves w/out opening the floodgates for people to abuse that.

 

That's what I would consider the biggest problem w/ America or at least what is turning into the biggest problem...lack of personal accountability. If a universal healthcare plan is not structured as such to still require some level of that, it is doing just as much harm as good.

[Mr. Kinsley]

What's the over/under on how many posts before TDW is back?

 

 

I

[Good Old Neon]

I get frightened when the system continues to throw its hands up in the air and lightens people of accountability for themselves and/or their families. Compassion is great...really...but it's not really that compassionate to breed a society that has no desire to fend for itself.

 

Why not extend that philosophy to national defense

[foolnrain97]

Didn't have time to make it through the entire thread this morning(so I don't know if someone has already said this), but the fact that it exists supports what I think is wrong with this country. There are so many problems here at home. Healthcare, Welfare, environmental issues, human rights issues, I just don't understand why we think we can make the rest of the world better by invading this or that country. Full out war, police action, whatever, is unacceptable until we have a decent example for others to follow. For me, I guess it all comes back to Gandhi: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

 

edit: that and the fact that mediocrity is acceptable for/amongst the majority of today's youth(myself included).