About Guthrie Songs

[ScreenDoor_]

Does anybody know if Tweedy used the exact Guthrie material or if he embellished or put words in when needed?

 

(the material for mermaid etc.)

[H.Stone]

I watched "Man In The Sand" and I think for both Bragg and Tweedy there was some "tweaking"--taking words out to fit rhythms, etc. I can't speak any more specifically than that, though. I just learned that much from what I saw in the documentary.

[ScreenDoor_]

I watched "Man In The Sand" and I think for both Bragg and Tweedy there was some "tweaking"--taking words out to fit rhythms, etc. I can't speak any more specifically than that, though. I just learned that much from what I saw in the documentary.

 

thats exactly what I wanted to know thanks!

[ScreenDoor_]

its actually pretty crazy how songs like remember the mountain bed can have lyrics that look and sound different as poetry, and then are so beautiful in the song

[markosis]

/\ that's a testament to the brilliance of the musical interpretations, in my opinion.

[Three dollars and 63 cents]

I watched "Man In The Sand" and I think for both Bragg and Tweedy there was some "tweaking"--taking words out to fit rhythms, etc. I can't speak any more specifically than that, though. I just learned that much from what I saw in the documentary.

 

I keep meaning to watch that. Netflix has it in their "Watch Now" online viewing thing.

[oceanman]

I would guess yes on alot of them. Transforming poetry to music is an art in it self.

[froggie]

there's a clip of Tweedy singing Birds & Ships with a completly different melody to Natalie's one. it sounds very folky and Dylanesque..

 

as for using the exact stuff, none of us have seen the original manuscripts that came from Nora, so wouldnt know if anything was changed

 

the changes would have been all about melody/chord structures

[bigshoulders]

I need to pick up that "Man in the Sand" again. I bought it for my girlfriend at the time, but never watched it with her. (I think the bassett hound might have eaten it.)

 

-k

[gogo]

Man in the Sand is good stuff, no doubt about it.

 

the changes would have been all about melody/chord structures

Was there music written for any of these, or were they just lyrics? I always thought it was just the lyrics, but I may be mistaken.

[LouieB]

Man in the Sand is good stuff, no doubt about it.

 

 

Was there music written for any of these, or were they just lyrics? I always thought it was just the lyrics, but I may be mistaken.

Words only...

 

LouieB

[jc4prez]

Does anyone notice the musical and lyrical similatries between "heasitating beauty" and the carter family's "lulu Walls". I'm confused how this track has anything to do with Guthrie. It sounds like a rewording of the same song in the same tune. I guess its possible guthire just re-wrote the song and made note of it or that jeff spotted the similarites but to me it doesnt make sense.

 

Here are the lyircs for lulu walls

 

One evening getting dark, we first met at the park

Sitting by the fountain all alone;

I lifted up my hat, and then began to chat

She said she'd love to see me at her home

 

Such a star I've never seen, she's as pretty as a queen

She's as perfect as an angel from above,

If she'll only be my wife, I'll live happy all my life

With that aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls

 

If she were only mine, I would build a house so fine

Around it so many fences tall,

It would make me jealous free, that no one else but me

Could gaze on that beauty, Lulu Walls

 

One evening getting late, I met her at the gate

I asked her if she'd wed me in the fall,

She only turned away, and nothing would she say

That aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls

[jc4prez]

bump

[androscoggin]

Does anyone notice the musical and lyrical similatries between "heasitating beauty" and the carter family's "lulu Walls". I'm confused how this track has anything to do with Guthrie. It sounds like a rewording of the same song in the same tune. I guess its possible guthire just re-wrote the song and made note of it or that jeff spotted the similarites but to me it doesnt make sense.

 

Here are the lyircs for lulu walls

 

One evening getting dark, we first met at the park

Sitting by the fountain all alone;

I lifted up my hat, and then began to chat

She said she'd love to see me at her home

 

Such a star I've never seen, she's as pretty as a queen

She's as perfect as an angel from above,

If she'll only be my wife, I'll live happy all my life

With that aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls

 

If she were only mine, I would build a house so fine

Around it so many fences tall,

It would make me jealous free, that no one else but me

Could gaze on that beauty, Lulu Walls

 

One evening getting late, I met her at the gate

I asked her if she'd wed me in the fall,

She only turned away, and nothing would she say

That aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls

Many of Guthrie's songs were rewrites of Carter Family songs... (Well, tradition songs that the Carter Family played). Examples: Guthrie's "Linbergh" is a rewrite of The Carter Family's "Cannonball Blues," "I Ain't Got No Home In This World Anymore" is a rewrite of the Carter Family's "I Can't Feel At Home In This World Anymore," "Tom Joad" is a rewrite of "John Hardy," "Vigilante Man" is a rewrite of "Lonesome Day." Even "This Land Is Your Land" has its roots in the Carter Family. They recorded two songs with its melody: "When The World's On Fire," and "Little Darling Pal of Mine." "Hesitating Beauty" is no doubt a rewrite of "LuLu Walls," but that doesn't mean that it isn't a Woody song. That was just how he wrote songs.

[IamJacksName]

Many of Guthrie's songs were rewrites of Carter Family songs... (Well, tradition songs that the Carter Family played). Examples: Guthrie's "Linbergh" is a rewrite of The Carter Family's "Cannonball Blues," "I Ain't Got No Home In This World Anymore" is a rewrite of the Carter Family's "I Can't Feel At Home In This World Anymore," "Tom Joad" is a rewrite of "John Hardy," "Vigilante Man" is a rewrite of "Lonesome Day." Even "This Land Is Your Land" has its roots in the Carter Family. They recorded two songs with its melody: "When The World's On Fire," and "Little Darling Pal of Mine." "Hesitating Beauty" is no doubt a rewrite of "LuLu Walls," but that doesn't mean that it isn't a Woody song. That was just how he wrote songs.

 

And it wasn't just Woody, that's a huge part of the folk/blues tradition. Bob Dylan still does it; his last album had several similarities to the 19th Century poet Henry Timrod. Some of those melodies and lyrics go back so far their origins are completely gone; Guthrie's are just one example of that tradition.

[jc4prez]

And it wasn't just Woody, that's a huge part of the folk/blues tradition. Bob Dylan still does it; his last album had several similarities to the 19th Century poet Henry Timrod. Some of those melodies and lyrics go back so far their origins are completely gone; Guthrie's are just one example of that tradition.

 

 

I know all that. I was just asking if anyone knew if Jeff just saw the lyrics and remembered lulu walls or if there was a note that the song was meant to be sung to the formers melody. Which androscoggin didn't answer.

 

From what I understood Jeff wrote music and tweeked the lyrics for some of the numbers. I'm just curious how this came together.

[IamJacksName]

I know all. I was just asking if anyone knew if Jeff just saw the lyrics and remembered lulu walls or if there was a note that the song was meant to be sung to the formers melody. Which androscoggin didn't answer.

 

From what I understood Jeff wrote music and tweeked the lyrics for some of the numbers. I'm just curious how this came together.

 

Sorry, I don't know much about the making of Mermaid Avenue. I'd be interested in that myself. I listened to the demos this weekend; it had a few interesting bits on there. A solo Tweedy version of At My Window Sad and Lonely was pretty different from the album, but I think the lyrics were the same. I should go get Man in the Sand. I've never seen it before.

[dannygutters]

I would suggest emailing the people at the woody guthrie foundation. They are all quite nice and helpful folks, even nora herself will respond, but the guy in charge of research and quastions is Jorge Arevalo.

 

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/archives/staff.htm

 

and post anything you find out!

[ChooChooCharlie]

Many of Guthrie's songs were rewrites of Carter Family songs... (Well, tradition songs that the Carter Family played). Examples: Guthrie's "Linbergh" is a rewrite of The Carter Family's "Cannonball Blues," "I Ain't Got No Home In This World Anymore" is a rewrite of the Carter Family's "I Can't Feel At Home In This World Anymore," "Tom Joad" is a rewrite of "John Hardy," "Vigilante Man" is a rewrite of "Lonesome Day." Even "This Land Is Your Land" has its roots in the Carter Family. They recorded two songs with its melody: "When The World's On Fire," and "Little Darling Pal of Mine." "Hesitating Beauty" is no doubt a rewrite of "LuLu Walls," but that doesn't mean that it isn't a Woody song. That was just how he wrote songs.

I actually found that very informative -- thanks

[jc4prez]

I would suggest emailing the people at the woody guthrie foundation. They are all quite nice and helpful folks, even nora herself will respond, but the guy in charge of research and quastions is Jorge Arevalo.

 

http://www.woodyguthrie.org/archives/staff.htm

 

and post anything you find out!

 

 

thanks, I now I have something more intresting then homework to do this weekend. i'll def. let you all know if I get a response.

[IamJacksName]

thanks, I now I have something more intresting then homework to do this weekend. i'll def. let you all know if I get a response.

 

Please do, I'd love to know what you find out.

 

On an unrelated note, did anyone realize there was a live Woody Guthrie album issued last year? It won a Grammy for Best Historical Release, I believe is what the site said. I had no idea. I've got to get that.

[froggie]

one thing i've always wondered - did the songs/manuscripts have titles to them before bragg/wilco got to them, or did they make them up while recording?.

 

 

they could have just been random lyrics

 

tunes like One by one are self explanitory for a title, but Airline to heaven or Walt Whitmans Niece or Mountain bed?

[howdjadoo]

http://woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Lyrics.htm

[Oil Can Boyd]

I know all.

Then what are you asking us for?

[jc4prez]

Then what are you asking us for?

 

 

of all my grammar errors on this board that trumps all.