Election 2008

[JUDE]

No, it's better that the government find real solutions to problems instead of bandaid solutions that don't really fix anything.

 

Also, if the gas tax was eliminated, what do you think the chances are that the gas companies will see it as an opportunity to raise the price of gas? I say about 120%.

 

I'd be more concerned about state governments increasing state gas taxes to cover the loss of federal money coming back than about the omnipotent evil oil companies putting the fix on.

 

In fact I bet the Minnesota Legislature started planning a special session just about the time Hilary's idea went to the press.

[MrRain422]

I'd be more concerned about state governments increasing state gas taxes to cover the loss of federal money coming back than about the omnipotent evil oil companies putting the fix on.

 

A really good point. Hadn't thought of that.

[Good Old Neon]

This pretty much sums it up for me:

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaP...&m=89967083

[LouieB]

Maybe it's just me, but Barack is looking pretty tired/burned out in the last week.

Barack really needs to regain his mojo.

You have that (w)right.....

 

One also has to believe that he is a touch worried about the Rezo trial as well, which isn't involving him directly, but is involving just about every other Illinois politician. Clearly (or maybe not so clearly) Barak is not part of the endemic political corruption that is IL, but he has been through the same system which may also be an issue in the general election.

 

LouieB

[boywiththorninside]

[Tweedling]

So Barack and Michelle are brother and sister? That's just gross!

[Panther]

I might be insane acording to CNN but after listening to Rverend Wright I realized I agree with basically everything he said.

why do these media people continue to intoduce him as contoversial why dont they just let the viewer decide for themselves>>> oh wright theyre corrupt

 

 

"Dont believe the hype"

 

On a side note as a long time Feminist or w.e I feel it is laughable to think Hillary Clinton is a "historic" candidate, I mean shes married to a former president is this a fucking joke? our we suposed to say wow a real possibility of a women president isnt America progressive, its Hillary fucking Clinton, seriously am I crazy or what

[ikol]

I might be insane acording to CNN but after listening to Rverend Wright I realized I agree with basically everything he said.

why do these media people continue to intoduce him as contoversial why dont they just let the viewer decide for themselves>>> oh wright theyre corrupt

 

So the belief that the U.S. government created HIV to oppress black people isn't controversial?

[bjorn_skurj]

On a side note as a long time Feminist or w.e I feel it is laughable to think Hillary Clinton is a "historic" candidate, I mean shes married to a former president is this a fucking joke? our we suposed to say wow a real possibility of a women president isnt America progressive, its Hillary fucking Clinton, seriously am I crazy or what

Being Bill Clinton's wife has its pluses and minuses. I suspect it's kind of a wash, but one could argue that all the exposure she got as first lady gave her a boost that makes her candidacy different from, I don't know, Clare McCaskill's or somebody's. Still, I would be wary of minimizing Hillary's, or Barack's, achievement. It's a far cry from Geraldine Ferraro or Jesse Jackson.

[Panther]

Well sure it can be taken as controversial but my point was that this entire campaign coverage has been a farce it

[Panther]

So the belief that the U.S. government created HIV to oppress black people isn't controversial?

 

Im sorry but thats a backwards thinking response, are you defending the imature selfesh media coverage have you been paying attention. Come on the guy is allowed to have his opinions without being destroyed, what kinda country is this you cant speak against the goverment without being anti american thats insane. Black opression is real and has been and continues to be but the notion that aids was created in a lab is suggesting it was done to opress poor people around the world I dont no if thats true but its not that far fetched.

 

Look up Black Wall street if you want to open you eyes to what lengths the American goverment will go to to opress the black community in its own citites.

Im sorry Im not talking to you specifically Im juts ranting but its so fustrating how evreything is made out to be political and how polarizing

the media is and people actual buy this crap, I mean its 2008 are we going to decide who the next president is like this again.

[ikol]

Well sure it can be taken as controversial but my point was that this entire campaign coverage has been a farce it

[Panther]

thats fine if youre convinced hes a hate speaker thats your standards and your outlook, personaly I'll stick to my opinion that calling Wright a hate speaker is insane.

 

Okay , so how is he in favour of the US of KKK ? I thought it was awesome when he said that, you do no that in the 1920s there were 13 members of congress who were open members of the KKK and the famous KKK marches in washingtion at the same time were erily simaliiar to the Nazi marches in the 1930s.

 

Okay, so how is calling Bush stupid hate speak?

 

as far as his role as a preacher I think he is well in his element to be saying the things he says, maybe its just shocking that if you hold the american goverment to the standards of the Bible then they are all in the wrong it gets complicated theologically but its also simple though shall not kill, though shall not steal etc.

Im not sayiung these standards are universaly right the men and women in the american goverment have the freedom to do what they please but a preacher has the duty to call a spade a spade, you see what Im saying?

[ikol]

Okay , so how is he in favour of the US of KKK ? I thought it was awesome when he said that, you do no that in the 1920s there were 13 members of congress who were open members of the KKK and the famous KKK marches in washingtion at the same time were erily simaliiar to the Nazi marches in the 1930s.

 

My point was that referring to the "US of KKK" is anti-American unless you happen to agree with the KKK (Wright clearly would not).

 

Okay, so how is calling Bush stupid hate speak?

 

Maybe this is my own bias from being raised Catholic. The priests almost never got into politics, and when they did, they only talked about specific policies (e.g. abortion is immoral) without insulting or even naming specific leaders. Calling Bush stupid is certainly not controversial, but it just strikes me as not very Christlike.

 

as far as his role as a preacher I think he is well in his element to be saying the things he says, maybe its just shocking that if you hold the american goverment to the standards of the Bible then they are all in the wrong it gets complicated theologically but its also simple though shall not kill, though shall not steal etc.

Im not sayiung these standards are universaly right the men and women in the american goverment have the freedom to do what they please but a preacher has the duty to call a spade a spade, you see what Im saying?

 

Again, there's a difference between holding the government accountable and specifically making derogatory comments about individuals in the government.

[Panther]

reffering to the US of KKK is not anti-american it is anti KKK and the KKKs involvement in american polictics you know before the 60s things were diffrent publicly.

I was raised Cathlolic aswell and I dread the monotone passive agreessive teachings of the catholic church,

but that has nothing to do with Revernd Wright being a hate speaker as for calling Bush stupid not being christ like, again if you hold people like Bush jr to what the bible says calling the man stupid is taking it easy on him evil would be more appropriate and a Reverend is certainly in the position to do so.

 

"Again, there's a difference between holding the government accountable and specifically making derogatory comments about individuals in the government."

 

I dont see anything wrong with pointing out individuals that seems kinda insane to suggest thats wrong and its certainly not hate speak.

Maybe people should try to think where a man like Revend Wright is coming from and understand that these type of sermons are suposed to be uplfiting and eyeopening

for the black community or anyone who is in his church. Analyzing things he says with no pretext is backwards thinking and well STUPID.

[explodo]

He's supposed to be preaching love and forgiveness, and instead he's preaching personal insults and lies.

As if priests and ministers don't do the exact same thing. I'm not going to defend Reverend Wright here, but I think your statement is bogus. Matters of faith are matters of opinion, and there are likely twenty gay-hating, intelligent-design-hawking ministers for every one Jeremiah Wright.

[ikol]

As if priests and ministers don't do the exact same thing. I'm not going to defend Reverend Wright here, but I think your statement is bogus. Matters of faith are matters of opinion, and there are likely twenty gay-hating, intelligent-design-hawking ministers for every one Jeremiah Wright.

 

Indeed. And I get the impression that many Obama supporters and Wright defenders would have a problem with those ministers.

[Reni]

Maybe this is my own bias from being raised Catholic. The priests almost never got into politics, and when they did, they only talked about specific policies (e.g. abortion is immoral) without insulting or even naming specific leaders.

 

You must not know any Jesuits, then.

[Tweedling]

Is Obama runnning for the presidednt of canada it seems that maybe he is I know he's not but I may had too much to drinks.

[Beltmann]

My point was that referring to the "US of KKK" is anti-American unless you happen to agree with the KKK (Wright clearly would not).

Are there no other options? Is it possible that Wright's label was meant to target only specific instances of institutional racism, and therefore did not attack American ideals themselves but the systematic corruption of those ideals? (I don't presume to know the answer to that, but I always bristle when given either-or choices that are, most likely, reductive and cartoonish.)

 

Having listened to the sermons in question, I'm inclined to believe that Rev. Wright loves the idea of America but hates certain aspects of its shortcomings (as perceived by him). That's not anti-Americanism; it's tough love. It's fair to criticize him for the tenor of his rhetoric, the content and accuracy of his assertions, the provocative and angry tone of his delivery--I certainly take issue with a number of his statements--but I'm unwilling to assume that this man must, beyond doubt, hate this country and its people.

[ikol]

Are there no other options? Is it possible that Wright's label was meant to target only specific instances of institutional racism, and therefore did not attack American ideals themselves but the systematic corruption of those ideals? (I don't presume to know the answer to that, but I always bristle when given either-or choices that are, most likely, reductive and cartoonish.)

 

I said he may not be anti-American. The KKK remark was just meant to be sarcastic. As I've said before, whether or not he is anti-American is not the issue. The things he's said are plenty vile without being unpatriotic. Even Obama has come around on this (it's all part of the whole "change" thing ).

 

Having listened to the sermons in question, I'm inclined to believe that Rev. Wright loves the idea of America but hates certain aspects of its shortcomings (as perceived by him). That's not anti-Americanism; it's tough love.

 

Shortcomings such as engineering a deadly virus to kill black people? Maybe Wright's critics love the idea of a Christian preacher but hate certain aspects of Wright's shortcomings. They're just practicing tough love.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Well sure it can be taken as batshit crazy...

 

 

Fixed it...no...CORRECTED it for you

[Beltmann]

Shortcomings such as engineering a deadly virus to kill black people?

As I said, shortcomings as perceived by him. As I also said, it's fair game to criticize him for the content of his assertions. I'm not about to defend that particular comment by him. My point is only that it's possible for a man to utter such a ludicrous and paranoid statement and still be a friend to America overall.

 

Maybe Wright's critics love the idea of a Christian preacher but hate certain aspects of Wright's shortcomings. They're just practicing tough love.

If so, then we agree. Still, while Wright criticizes only aspects of American government, I suspect that dynamic is not true for the likes of Hannity and others--for them, there's no "tough love" in their criticisms; they hate the man entire.

[ikol]

As I said, shortcomings as perceived by him. As I also said, it's fair game to criticize him for the content of his assertions. I'm not about to defend that particular comment by him. My point is only that it's possible for a man to utter such a ludicrous and paranoid statement and still be a friend to America overall.

 

He may be a friend to America, but he's not one that should be taken seriously. He's either dishonest or delusional, neither of which is a good quality for a spiritual leader. Enter Treehugger to point out that all spiritual leaders are delusional.

 

If so, then we agree. Still, while Wright criticizes only aspects of American government, I suspect that dynamic is not true for the likes of Hannity and others--for them, there's no "tough love" in their criticisms; they hate the man entire.

 

I can't speak for Hannity and the like (and have no desire to do so), but I think we agree. I'm not suggesting he be muzzled or arrested or anything, just that those who defend him realize what they're defending.

[myboyblue]

Hillary on Letterman:

 

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