Election 2008

[Guest Speed Racer]

I am not saying that the Dems necessarily have an upper hand in the fall, due to primary turnout.....I was just correcting your assumption that Republicans weren't coming out to vote, because it had already been decided.

 

No, I know that, but I still think that with an incumbent in house the perception that you're already "winning" (GOP) or "losing" (Dems) is stronger.

[Guest Jules]

Don't underestimate the power of the white man.

[Gobias Industries]

Don't underestimate the power of the white man with a gun.

[Tweedling]

Don't underestimate the power of the man with a white gun.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

So has anyone considered the possibility that Barack Obama is a secret Catholic?

 

To wit:

 

1. His grandfather "converted" to Islam from Roman Catholicism.

2. Obama has admitted to attending Catholic schools in Indonesia.

3. Obama has spoken at Catholic institutions such as St. Peter

[EL the Famous]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080309/ap_on_..._hastert_s_seat

 

I am totally shocked and oh so pleased. I never thought I would see a Dem in Hastert's seat! In addition, Jim Oberweis can't seem to get elected, EVER.....which is hilarious.

 

late to comment on this, but I laughed my ass off too. i must have heard oberweis ads slamming Foster ever day for weeks on the news radio i listen to on the way home from work.

 

anyhow, is it just me or is shit getting a little to tense in the primaries? meaning, the he said/she said infighting feels like it's going to end up biting the entire party on the ass sooner or later. i know it is nature of the beast to some extent, but shit like this is detracting from actually rallying against the known opponent in mccain...

 

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Barack Obama's White House campaign lashed out in fury Tuesday after a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter attributed his stunning march through US politics to his race.

 

Obama aide Susan Rice called for Clinton to fire Geraldine Ferraro, the only woman yet to run on a major party's presidential ticket, after her comments Friday to a Los Angeles newspaper.

 

"That's a really outrageous and offensive comment," Rice said on MSNBC television after Ferraro, who sits on Clinton's finance committee, had said: "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position."

 

"It is the sort of comment that we have heard repeatedly, I'm afraid, from some of the Clinton surrogates," said Rice, Obama's leading adviser on foreign policy.

 

She said Ferraro's remarks were "far worse" than those of another foreign policy aide, Samantha Power, who was forced to resign from the Obama campaign last week for calling Clinton a "monster."

 

"I think if Senator Clinton is serious about putting an end to statements that have racial implications, that diminish Barack Obama because he's an African-American man, then she ought to really repudiate this comment and make it clear that there's no place in her campaign for people who will say this kind of thing," Rice said.

 

Ferraro was Walter Mondale's running mate for the Democrats in the 1984 presidential election. They lost in a landslide to the Republican ticket led by Ronald Reagan.

 

In an interview Friday with the Daily Breeze newspaper, she was quoted as saying that Obama's success revealed the "very sexist" attitudes of the media.

 

"And if he was a woman -- of any color -- he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept," Ferraro said.

 

The Clinton campaign had no immediate comment. Late last year, the New York senator fired two junior aides for spreading emails claiming falsely that Obama is secretly a Muslim.

[Guest Jules]

So has anyone considered the possibility that Barack Obama is a secret Catholic?

 

To wit:

 

1. His grandfather "converted" to Islam from Roman Catholicism.

2. Obama has admitted to attending Catholic schools in Indonesia.

3. Obama has spoken at Catholic institutions such as St. Peter's College in New Jersey.

 

Is he not the liberal protestant he portrays himself as? Why won't he answer these questions?

I might vote for him then.

[Good Old Neon]

I do find it interesting that Obama

[MrRain422]

I don't see how claiming a call to serve (which could be metaphorical) is the same as Bush saying that God spoke to him directly. It's just not the same thing.

[MattZ]

I think there may be some larger lessons here given the Spitzer fiasco in NY. What is happening now in NY is certainly relevant to any discussion about "change" in politics.

 

Spitzer roared into office with a 70% mandate. And since day one in office, he has been blocked by the Republicans in the state senate and has been able to accomplish very little. And now he is being taken down. Now, don't get me wrong -- it appears that Spitzer is a clown who is guilty of hubris (and possibly, of breaking the law), but he also pissed off a lot of people in a lot of high places as Attorney General and Governor because he challenged the status quo. There are a lot of powerful people out there that like the status quo that do not or will not roll over -- even when someone is elected with 70% of the vote.

 

It's looking less and less likely that sweeping change is even possible in politics. Maybe incremental change is the best this system offers us?

 

Now, if Obama supporters believe that he is the best person to effect incremental change because he will be best able (or better able) to bring people together, that's fine. That seems to be the best argument (i.e., he is a uniter and HRC is a divider). (Come on, you knew where I was going with this right? ) I do think, however, that many Obama supporters are voting for him because they believe that he can/will deliver sweeping change that just isn't even possible. And part of what frustrates me with Obama's campaign is that I think he is fostering this.

 

As a side point -- I dont mean to compare Obama to Spitzer -- certainly Obama would be more graceful, and hopefully wouldn't get caught with hookers. But I do think the Spitzer story proves just how hard it is to effect sweeping change.

[Guest Jules]

But I do think the Spitzer story proves just how hard it is to effect sweeping change.

And that all men are perverts.

[bjorn_skurj]

Me, personally, I

[Good Old Neon]

I don't see how claiming a call to serve (which could be metaphorical) is the same as Bush saying that God spoke to him directly. It's just not the same thing.

 

"I'll just bet you didn't know during the primary campaign in South

Carolina, as pointed out by Glenn Greenwald at Salon, the good Sen.

Obama distributed a brochure which seem to include religious appeals

at least as overt and explicit as anything Rev. Huckabee has done. The

center page of the brochure proclaims -- in the largest letters on the

page -- that Obama is a "COMMITTED CHRISTIAN," and includes three

pictures of Obama, all of which show him praying or preaching in a

Church, and also includes a fourth picture: of the interior of a

Church with a large cross lurking in the background. The page also

says that Obama is "guided by his Christian faith" and quotes Obama

saying: "We do what we do because God is with us."

 

That same page prints Obama's views "on the power of prayer," and --

using the same language George Bush has frequently used as a signifier

to evangelical voters -- says that Obama is "Called to Christ,"

"Called to Bring Change" and "Called to Serve."

 

Similarly,Greenwald reports, the front page of the brochure shows

Obama in a chin-on-hand contemplative posture and underneath, it

reads: "Answering the Call." The last page shows two more pictures of

Obama in Church, proclaims him again in large letters to be a

"COMMITTED CHRISTIAN," and describes how he "felt a beckoning and

accepted Jesus Christ into [his] life."

 

Sources - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politic...3e8dfba2c995a60

 

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/200...bama/index.html

 

And, finally:

 

[EL the Famous]

Is Nader still a practicing Catholic?

[Good Old Neon]

Is Nader still a practicing Catholic?

 

Based on what I've read, he appears to be agnostic or atheist leaning - either way, he does not make it a centerpiece of his campaign.

[bobbob1313]

That Treehugger is making quite a good point regarding all of the crap Bush was given for thinking he was appointed by God. It's not the same thing, but I can garauntee you a lot of Obama supporters were giving Bush all kinds of hell for his comments regarding that, and this is similar.

[EL the Famous]

Based on what I've read, he appears to be agnostic or atheist leaning - either way, he does not make it a centerpiece of his campaign.

 

agnostic and atheist are two different things...if you have an issue w/ someone in office having belief in a higher power, you'd figure it would concern you, centerpiece or not.

 

as far as obama, i don't know that i would call his faith a 'centerpiece' of his campaign, at least (most importantly) in how it affects his stance on the issues. his religious faith has become even more of an issue for him relative to the public misconception he is muslim...in some cases being used improperly as a deterrent for people to vote for him. if anything, the flyer above is probably equal part damage control and equal part marketing to an american public that faith is still considered a good thing relative to one's charachter.

 

personally, it doesn't bother me all the way around it...faith influencing how one makes decisions versus the religious doctrine making the decisions for them.

[JerseyMike]

s far as obama, i don't know that i would call his faith a 'centerpiece' of his campaign, at least (most importantly) in how it affects his stance on the issues. his religious faith has become even more of an issue for him relative to the public misconception he is muslim...in some cases being used improperly as a deterrent for people to vote for him. if anything, the flyer above is probably equal part damage control and equal part marketing to an american public that faith is still considered a good thing relative to one's charachter.

 

Agreed, Good point.

[Edie]

as far as obama, i don't know that i would call his faith a 'centerpiece' of his campaign, at least (most importantly) in how it affects his stance on the issues. his religious faith has become even more of an issue for him relative to the public misconception he is muslim...in some cases being used improperly as a deterrent for people to vote for him. if anything, the flyer above is probably equal part damage control and equal part marketing to an american public that faith is still considered a good thing relative to one's charachter.

 

personally, it doesn't bother me all the way around it...faith influencing how one makes decisions versus the religious doctrine making the decisions for them.

 

Thank you. I started to reply to this earlier and ran out of time. This last sentence is the difference for me.

[Good Old Neon]

agnostic and atheist are two different things...if you have an issue w/ someone in office having belief in a higher power, you'd figure it would concern you, centerpiece or not.

 

as far as obama, i don't know that i would call his faith a 'centerpiece' of his campaign, at least (most importantly) in how it affects his stance on the issues. his religious faith has become even more of an issue for him relative to the public misconception he is muslim...in some cases being used improperly as a deterrent for people to vote for him. if anything, the flyer above is probably equal part damage control and equal part marketing to an american public that faith is still considered a good thing relative to one's charachter.

 

personally, it doesn't bother me all the way around it...faith influencing how one makes decisions versus the religious doctrine making the decisions for them.

 

We

[EL the Famous]

i understand what you are saying, but that kind of makes an assumption that all or, at least, a large % of 'obama supporters' have a problem w/ a candidate being religious/christian. going back to what i said about faith influencing how one makes decisions versus their chosen religious doctrine making the decisions for them, the fundamental difference between said supporters comparing obama to a GW or Huckabee is likely one of policy. meaning, at least from my standpoint, obama's relgious beliefs are not causing a conflicted stance on certain issues w/in the democratic platform...unlike W and Huckabee.

 

to criticize huckabee/W for being christians and not do the same for obama is one thing...criticizing them for how their religious views conflict w/ an individuals stance on certain issues, another.

[Sir Stewart]

Dems needed to embrace faith - they wouldn't stand a chance otherwise.

[EL the Famous]

Dems needed to embrace faith - they wouldn't stand a chance otherwise.

 

no doubt...like it or not, the reality is that it still plays a huge part of judging a candidates charachter for a lot of folks on both sides of the fence. personally, for me, it doesn't really sway me one way or the other...unless, as i stated earlier, it creates a differing opinion in the actual issues.

 

the other reality is, that more often than not, most folks come to daily struggles w/ how their religous views intertwine w/ day to day life...sometimes there is a conflict and you have to lean on your own personal relationship w/ God to work through them to a point you feel you are on the same page. before you say it, yes...there some folks who take certain passages of the bible verbatim and live those words to the hilt. my guess is that the larger part of us use the same passages to guide us to our own decisions, rather than making them for us.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Some of the coverage have suggested that this a bellwether for the Democrats, but I'm not so sure. I think it may just be an indictment of 14th district Repubs for nominating Oberweis.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/..._lost_il14.html

[EL the Famous]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/..._lost_il14.html

 

Jim Oberweis, who has made millions in the diary business, somehow has gotten it into his head that voters are clamoring for him.