David Foster Wallace....

[Moltisanti]

I tried once again to read Infinite Jest, and after about a hundred pages I gave up, as usual.

 

It is not pleasurable reading. Fuck that book.

[Good Old Neon]

I tried once again to read Infinite Jest, and after about a hundred pages I gave up, as usual.

 

It is not pleasurable reading. Fuck that book.

 

David Foster Wallace (being interviewed by Larry McCaffrey): I had a teacher I liked who used to say good fiction's job was to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. I guess a big part of serious fiction's purpose is to give the reader, who like all of us is sort of marooned in her own skull, to give her imaginative access to other selves. Since an ineluctable part of being a human self is suffering, part of what we humans come to art for is an experience of suffering, necessarily a vicarious experience, more like a sort of "generalization" of suffering. Does this make sense? We all suffer alone in the real world; true empathy's impossible. But if a piece of fiction can allow us imaginatively to identify with a character's pain, we might then also more easily conceive of others identifying with our own. This is nourishing, redemptive; we become less alone inside. It might just be that simple. But now realize that TV and popular film and most kinds of "low" art--which just means art whose primary aim is to make money--is lucrative precisely because it recognizes that audiences prefer 100 percent pleasure to the reality that tends to be 49 percent pleasure and 51 percent pain. Whereas "serious" art, which is not primarily about getting money out of you, is more apt to make you uncomfortable, or to force you to work hard to access its pleasures, the same way that in real life true pleasure is usually a by-product of hard work and discomfort. So it's hard for an art audience, especially a young one that's been raised to expect art to be 100 percent pleasurable and to make that pleasure effortless, to read and appreciate serious fiction. That's not good. The problem isn't that today's readership is "dumb," I don't think. Just that TV and the commercial-art culture's trained it to be sort of lazy and childish in its expectations. But it makes trying to engage today's readers both imaginatively and intellectually unprecedentedly hard.

 

Awesome - I've reached my one daily DFW quote quota.

[dannygutters]

This is an interesting thought. Are we genetically selected to expect a specific kind of story and resolution and when we don't get it the story is 'difficult'?

 

A similar quote on storytelling I remember from an Interview with John Hodgman (topically it was a 9/11 anniversary talk, but the whole thing is here: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/9/11hodgman.html), he says:

 

"The second lesson plan that I had in those days was a very lazy assessment of storytelling's function, beginning in the oral tradition, when it served a civic purpose aside from getting you invited to cocktail parties. As I would explain to my adoring students, storytelling served initially in every culture three purposes: to inform, as in relay news and record history, to instruct, as in pass down a set of moral guidelines, and to entertain. We are, as regards this event and its unfolding, all too well informed. And as for entertainment: when I thought this was a bright idea, it was when I was younger and war seemed so far away. But I realize now that those in history whose lives were short and mean and threatened by sword and disease gathered and told stories not as leisure, but as desperately needed distraction, and reassurance that they were not alone. "

 

Is our response of 'difficulty' to a story telling us it is a failure because the story did not serve these functions?

 

Personally, I find it specious to blame TV for training a 'dumbing down' of audience expectations, I'm sure there were dummies before 1920.

[bjorn_skurj]

Either that, or the writing's crap, or just not too many people's taste. I have read about zero DFW, so I can't say.

[Good Old Neon]

Either that, or the writing's crap, or just not too many people's taste. I have read about zero DFW, so I can't say.

 

Yeah, I would be the first to admit his fiction is not for everyone

[mpolak21]

Is our response of 'difficulty' to a story telling us it is a failure because the story did not serve these functions?

 

Personally, I find it specious to blame TV for training a 'dumbing down' of audience expectations, I'm sure there were dummies before 1920.

 

. Wonderful.

 

--Mike

[Moltisanti]

I read his piece in Esquire about men's tennis(which appeared in A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again), and I will grant you it was one of the greatest things I've ever read -- Ever. Those footnotes had me dying in laughter.

 

But Infinite Jest? No. I've tried three times now.

[Good Old Neon]

I read his piece in Esquire about men's tennis(which appeared in A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again), and I will grant you it was one of the greatest things I've ever read -- Ever. Those footnotes had me dying in laughter.

 

But Infinite Jest? No. I've tried three times now.

 

I assume you are referring to -

[MattZ]

I am 350 pp into Infinite Jest now and I love every page. Every single page. Almost every sentence is wonderful. It feels like a long, lonely journey. I have no one to discuss it with -- all my friends gave up somewhere between page 1 and 100. Or they dismiss it out of hand by reference to "Pynchon" or "post-post-modern."

 

It's unlike any experience I've had with a book (never read DFW before). Every review I have seen/read talks about how funny the book is. And yet, I can't stop thinking about how sad it is.

 

I only wish I had read it when DFW was alive. I am virtually certain that parts of the book are hitting me in ways they otherwise would not have if they weren't coming across as coded cries for help.

 

And fuck the guy on amazon who posted a spoiler in his review.

 

Not sure why I am posting this. Like I said, it's a lonely journey and I needed to say something somewhere.

 

I am in the middle of the brilliance of Eschaton right now.

[uncool2pillow]

I am 350 pp into Infinite Jest now and I love every page. Every single page. Almost every sentence is wonderful. It feels like a long, lonely journey. I have no one to discuss it with -- all my friends gave up somewhere between page 1 and 100. Or they dismiss it out of hand by reference to "Pynchon" or "post-post-modern."

 

It's unlike any experience I've had with a book (never read DFW before). Every review I have seen/read talks about how funny the book is. And yet, I can't stop thinking about how sad it is.

 

I only wish I had read it when DFW was alive. I am virtually certain that parts of the book are hitting me in ways they otherwise would not have if they weren't coming across as coded cries for help.

 

And fuck the guy on amazon who posted a spoiler in his review.

 

Not sure why I am posting this. Like I said, it's a lonely journey and I needed to say something somewhere.

 

I am in the middle of the brilliance of Eschaton right now.

On a slightly related note. There was a hilarious Pynchon reference in a recent Onion article.

[Good Old Neon]

Huge (though equally bittersweet and depressing) news for Wallace fans. It turns out he did indeed leave behind a substantial though not quite completed (hopefully not overly skeletal) third novel - The Pale King.

 

A new excerpt entitled - Wiggle Room, was published in this month

[MattZ]

Oh, and Matt, well said. I

[Moss]

It's hard to want to read a book that makes you feel intellectually inferior. I have come to the conclusion that I am not capable of reading and understanding Ulysses. I bought Gravity's rainbow but have not started it yet. Infinete Jest is the same thing.

 

I'm not so afraid of the work it will take to get through them, just afraid to find out I am not even capable of getting through them.

[mfwahl]

Jnick, thanks for the link. Do you know if that Charlie Rose interview is available online anywhere? Also, to start, should I jump into Infinite Jest or start with some short stories or something? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Your passion for DFW has finally worn me down into convincing me to read some. Thanks!

[Sir Stewart]

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/5639

[mfwahl]

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/5639

Sheeeeeit, that was fast.

[MattZ]

Also, to start, should I jump into Infinite Jest or start with some short stories or something? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Your passion for DFW has finally worn me down into convincing me to read some. Thanks!

 

Jnick wore me down with his passion too. I jumped in at Infinite Jest and I am wrapping it up right now. I don't know if it's the best place to start, but it worked for me. Actually, I take that back. I read a short story that he wrote about a woman in psychotherapy. I am sure jnick can point you to it. I can't remember what it was/is called.

 

If you go the Infinite Jest route, I guess my advice to you would be: take your time. The shit that doesn't make sense will start to make sense (sort of). I almost threw in the towel at around 100pp, and didn't, and the rewards have been many.

 

I also thought to myself throughout that if any one person can have the discipline and the love to write something like this, then I can have the discipline to read it. It is a sad and a long journey. Good luck. See you on the other side.

[Good Old Neon]

I read a short story that he wrote about a woman in psychotherapy. I am sure jnick can point you to it. I can't remember what it was/is called.

 

The Depressed Person.

 

http://harpers.org/media/pdf/dfw/HarpersMa...-01-0059425.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

More to follow....

[Good Old Neon]

Ha ha - you

[MattZ]

As Matt noted, IJ sort of demands your attention, and is not the sort of reading experience to be approached half-heartedly. Wallace respects his readers enough to sort of say,

[explodo]

It's hard to want to read a book that makes you feel intellectually inferior. I have come to the conclusion that I am not capable of reading and understanding Ulysses. I bought Gravity's rainbow but have not started it yet. Infinete Jest is the same thing.

 

I'm not so afraid of the work it will take to get through them, just afraid to find out I am not even capable of getting through them.

In an entirely different way, I'm deathly afraid of both Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow. I'm not very afraid of not being able to get through anything, but as a person that likes to write, I find it very hard and almost bittersweet to be writing something I think is decent by day and reading something like Joyce by night. It's a good ego check, but it more often than not crushes my creative zeal. The last book to really knock me down a peg or two was Everything is Illuminated just because that bastard was like 24 when he was writing it. I'm planning on giving Infinite Jest a go sometime this year. Gravity's Rainbow I've already attempted something like ten times.

[mpolak21]

Anyways, back to Wallace. For me, ultimately, IJ is a book about compassion. There are no minor characters or incidents. Wallace gives every detail respect and every character a story. He

[Moss]

In an entirely different way, I'm deathly afraid of both Infinite Jest and Gravity's Rainbow. I'm not very afraid of not being able to get through anything, but as a person that likes to write, I find it very hard and almost bittersweet to be writing something I think is decent by day and reading something like Joyce by night. It's a good ego check, but it more often than not crushes my creative zeal. The last book to really knock me down a peg or two was Everything is Illuminated just because that bastard was like 24 when he was writing it. I'm planning on giving Infinite Jest a go sometime this year. Gravity's Rainbow I've already attempted something like ten times.

 

That's a great perspective I had not thought of. Kind of like songwriters realizing The Beatles were in their early 20's when making their masterpieces.

 

Sounds like IJ is at least more accessible than Gravitys rainbow so I'm in. As soon as I finish Dylan's Chronicles of course.

[bjorn_skurj]

I threw in the towel on Gravity's Rainbow halfway in. I liked V, but GR made no sense to me.

[calvino]

Just notice this on the New Yorker page. I haven't read it all the way through, yet.

 

I only read few of Wallace's pieces, (have not even attempted Jest, yet) and from what I read it is definitely great stuff.

 

I watched parts of the the Charlie Rose's interview that was linked in this thread and I thought it was pretty fascinating.

 

 

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03...0309fa_fact_max