New new election thread

[Good Old Neon]

Well, the "on any level" was a joke, but to say Obama was already "centrist" is just incorrect. What else is there to explain?

 

What, specifically, makes his stance on most issues not centrist?

[MattZ]

There are predatory lenders that take advantage of good willed people who believe the opportunities they're told and suffer consequences.

 

CT echoes much of what I said yesterday, but I'd also like to highlight that it's not just limited to mortgages. You hear stories about (mostly) senior citizens getting duped out of savings all the time with scams, and very smart and very dumb people are the victims of ponzi schemes all the time too. No matter how you slice it, or what you call it, there are ways to unfairly take money from unsuspecting victims. Yes, all those victims need to take responsibility for their actions, but I don't have any problem with lumping "mortgage brokers" into the same category of other law breakers if they have preyed on weaker folks and done and said things to fool people into situations they didnt understand. The victims are still suffering -- no doubt. Predatory lenders should too.

 

And for that matter, to close the circle -- I don't understand how someone can rationalize the government bail out of a financial institution that over leveraged itself (ie, Bear Stearns) as opposed to a homeowner that did the same thing. El, I am not putting words in your mouth (that's not directed at you), and I recognize that the scale of the comparison makes the comparison weak, but on a moral level, we've got the same thing happening. Two examples of over-leveraging. Why help one and not the other? Bear Stearns certainly knew what it was getting itself into...

[JUDE]

In regards to the mortgage bailout/predatory lender subject, as someone who spends a great deal of time working in real estate and real estate financing, I have yet to see a great number of homeowners who have been duped out of anything but their credit scores. Let me explain, I

[MattZ]

In regards to the mortgage bailout/predatory lender subject, as someone who spends a great deal of time working in real estate and real estate financing, I have yet to see a great number of homeowners who have been duped out of anything but their credit scores. Let me explain, I

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

In regards to the mortgage bailout/predatory lender subject, as someone who spends a great deal of time working in real estate and real estate financing, I have yet to see a great number of homeowners who have been duped out of anything but their credit scores. Let me explain, I

[EL the Famous]

I have absolutely no problem with prosecuting predatory lenders at one end of the extreme and letting dumbass borrowers take their medicine on the other end.

 

like you said earlier, we're on the same page. i absolve nobody of guilt on either side and don't think anybody should be bailed out either way. my stance was just one of, like a broken record, personal accountability...knowing that there are predatory folks w/in all things financial is all the more reason not to rush into anything.

 

prior to even getting our finances in order, we shopped around for mortgage brokers...based on both reccomendations and our own research. not just about their rates, but their business practices as well. we also took an actual class on purchasing a home through the local community college...maybe a tad extreme, but (again) it's pretty much the biggest purchase you'll make in your lifetime, worth being educated about.

 

anyways, i'm okay w/ mortgage talk...back to the election. the mccain clip is priceless.

 

If it's called "common sense" why is it so uncommon?

 

post of the day. seriously.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

That being said, all of us are speaking in absolutes, and maybe the lesson here is that there are extremes on all sides, and the majority of cases are somewhere in the middle. I have absolutely no problem with prosecuting predatory lenders at one end of the extreme and letting dumbass borrowers take their medicine on the other end.

 

Well based on democracy and a very litigious society, everything we formalize into law is guided by extremes, which is why the middle class seems to always get squeezed in the middle.

 

Given the major issues of today -- economics/jobs/trade, environment, law & order-national security, international role w/friends and enemies -- any plausible approach seems to point towards more government, not less (particularly environment, law and order and security). That is antithetical to the Republican's approach (although Bush's spending has bloated certain aspects of government).

 

I think we're are being forced, individually, to come to a decision of personal rights/freedom vs. government rights to rule and control aspects of our lives for the overall benefit of the society as a whole. Any movement in that direction is rife with conflicts, but none greater than people demanding rights and yet not contributing nor engaging the issues enough to advance any cause to a rational conclusion.

 

Now *I* ramble ...

[JUDE]

we also took an actual class on purchasing a home through the local community college...maybe a tad extreme, but (again) it's pretty much the biggest purchase you'll make in your lifetime, worth being educated about.

 

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

[EL the Famous]

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

 

ab-so-lutely.

[bjorn_skurj]

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

QFT.

[Moe_Syzlak]

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

One more in agreement with this. Unfortunately, I don't think this is what the "masters of the economy" want. We are told to spend, not save. Remember Bush post-9/11? It's the Rich Dad/Poor Dad phenomenon.

[Good Old Neon]

More and better education would certainly help, but what excuse do the ivy leaguers within the world of mortgage and finance have to fall back upon? Even some of the smartest, most educated folks within the world of business have found themselves in the deepest of financial shit.

[bjorn_skurj]

There is a psychological/emotional aspect of money management which drives a great deal of bad decision-making on every level.

[bjorn_skurj]

Presidential candidate Obama to sponsor Cup car at Pocono race

 

 

Bill Frakes/SI

 

SI.com has learned that for the first time in history, a major presidential candidate may sponsor a race car in NASCAR's premier series. According to sources, Barack Obama's campaign is in talks to become the primary sponsor of BAM Racing's No. 49 Sprint Cup car for the Pocono race on August 3. Details of the agreement are expected to be worked out over the coming days.

 

A BAM spokesperson has revealed the team will hold a press conference July 23 in Miami to reveal the partnership, currently a proposed one-race deal with an option to continue. Obama will be at the briefing, which will be tied to the "Get Out The Vote" campaign message he spread throughout the 2008 primary season.

 

Sources claim one of the options being considered would allow individual campaign donors to get their name on the race car for as little as $100. Obama will also be present for a second private fundraiser on July 30 in Miami, in which team owners Beth Ann and Tony Morgenthau -- staunch Republicans -- will give the Democrat an opportunity to spread his message of change. Randy Moss and Fergie are among the celebrities confirmed to be a part of that fundraiser in support of the candidate and his venture into NASCAR.

 

While George Bush was prominently featured on Kirk Shelmerdine's No. 72 car in 2004, this is the first time a national presidential campaign has actually given its own money to make itself a primary sponsor of a race car. The sport has typically shown itself to be a Republican stronghold, and in recent weeks two-time champ Jimmie Johnson is among the growing list of well-known NASCAR stars who have come out in favor of Obama's opponent, John McCain.

 

Ken Schrader will drive the entry, a Toyota, at Pocono for BAM, which is outside the top 35 in owner points and must qualify for the race on speed. The team has run just once since Martinsville due to sponsorship concerns, and has just six top-10 finishes in 167 career starts in the Cup series dating back to '02. According to sources, the team will stick with Toyota after making a switch from Dodge back in the spring.

[Sir Stewart]

Git 'r 'lected!

[bjorn_skurj]

It would be a Toyota, too.

[mountain bed]

"It's not the sport that I can't stand, it's the fans"

 

edit: this is TheMaker

[JUDE]

More and better education would certainly help, but what excuse do the ivy leaguers within the world of mortgage and finance have to fall back upon? Even some of the smartest, most educated folks within the world of business have found themselves in the deepest of financial shit.

 

Are you talking from a home owner perspective or an investment banker/portfolio perspective.

 

Regardless, If you are renting and it consumes greater than 35% of your net income annually and someone tells you they can put you into a home where you will build equity, have more than double the square footage, and reap the tax bennefits of ownership and at the same cost or less and you believe them, I don't know what to say.

 

From the investment banker/portfolio perspective if you don't do your due diligence, you deserve to be busted by the system. A fool and his money and all that.

[fatheadfred]

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

 

An informed consumer is the enemy of capitalism.

[Winston Legthigh]

An informed consumer is the enemy of capitalism.

 

?

 

Explain please!

[MattZ]

Yeah an informed consumer is vital to an efficient market, which is what capitalism is based on. Supply and demand coming together, etc.

 

Uninformed consumers make the markets less efficient, and screw up capitalism. Unless your point is that the "haves" of capitalism can more easily profit off of the "havenots" of capitalism if those "havenots" are uninformed. But capitalism isn't the enemy.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Speaking for no one but myself, that is more or less the way I took it and what i meant earlier. Saving money doesn't inject money into the economy. When times are tough (as in post 9/11), the smart thing to do is save money, not buy plasma televisions, but the economy NEEDS people to buy those things. [/gross oversimplification]

[EL the Famous]

But capitalism isn't the enemy.

 

HERACY!

[bjorn_skurj]

An informed consumer is the enemy of capitalism.

"At Syms, an educated consumer is our best customer."

[uncool2pillow]

This should be required in high school. They should require a financial survival skills math class to graduate, balancing check books, compund and simple interest, how your credit score works, how credit cards and loans work, and how mortgages/ real estate financing works.

My school has a 9-week course for 7th graders called Consumer Education. We have a great teacher who shows kids a lot of the problems w/ credit cards and the financial industry. But I think a lot of that is like drug/alcohol education. Once they're out of the classroom and American culture kicks them over the head with consume, consume, consume, the give in.