Wilco and atheism

[Panther]

wait. so people actually walk around living their lives not beliving or expecting an afterlife a continuation? thats really insane.

 

you know the powers that be had a fun time opressing the people for thousands of years with religion, the people were always taghut not to question they were taught that by their own parents(sick). By the end of the nineteenth century and start of the twentieth century many began to question. So instead of tolirating questions the powers that be shifted society into either beliving abousloutly in their religion or more commonly their is no god no afterlife we have but one life to live which gave rise to the worship of material things, and why not if this life dose not matter if there is no judgment on your soul then just worship what you have here, do what you must by anymeans neccsary to be succesful step on people who cares.

 

wait. so people actually walk around living their lives not beliving or expecting an afterlife a continuation? thats really insane.

 

"it might be the devil or it might be the lord but your gonna have to serve somebody" Bobby Dylan

[M. (hristine]

oh

[Panther]

The power to behave this way exists in each every one of us (to a greater or lesser degree), and does not require the help of some fanciful, external being.

 

This debate is always about words and not truths. How can you say the words exist inside ourselves and not recognize the spirit, afterall isnt that what this debate is about.

An atheist would have to say their is no soul because there is not physical evidence for it but we all know thats rubbish we can feel our souls we exist in a dream world when we go to sleep. our consiouness lives on , our earlthy exterior self is the pretenious self and we all have that inner conflict between our true selves and our prententious exterior selves.

 

refering to what someones was saying about Jews going to hell on the last page, first of all the word hell simply means the grave the entire fearbased eternal suffering hell was based on dantes inferno thats all. By the way can anyone find me a quote where Jesus said start a religion in my name write the bible? he diddn't his teachings were based on his life the man literaly traveld and helped people , asked people to give up their posessions and join him, pretty inspiring stuff.

[Sir Stewart]

This debate is always about misspelled words and not truths.

[Spawn's dad]

first of all the word hell simply means the grave the entire fearbased eternal suffering hell was based on dantes inferno thats all.

 

Are you high right now?

[Moe_Syzlak]

Let's hope spelling isn't a prerequisite for the afterlife.

[Panther]

Are you high right now?

 

no I am not and the word Hell simply translates as The Grave, fact.

as far as spelling goes....

 

Fi you can raed this, you have a sgtrange mind too. Can you raed this?

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdaneig.

[bjorn_skurj]

I am not a medieval scholar, but I am pretty sure Dante did not make up hell out of whole cloth.

[Spawn's dad]

jfc....Dante didn't invent the concept.

 

Don't you have another conspiracy theory to uncork?

[Good Old Neon]

This debate is always about words and not truths. How can you say the words exist inside ourselves and not recognize the spirit, afterall isnt that what this debate is about.

An atheist would have to say their is no soul because there is not physical evidence for it but we all know thats rubbish we can feel our souls we exist in a dream world when we go to sleep. our consiouness lives on , our earlthy exterior self is the pretenious self and we all have that inner conflict between our true selves and our prententious exterior selves.

 

refering to what someones was saying about Jews going to hell on the last page, first of all the word hell simply means the grave the entire fearbased eternal suffering hell was based on dantes inferno thats all. By the way can anyone find me a quote where Jesus said start a religion in my name write the bible? he diddn't his teachings were based on his life the man literaly traveld and helped people , asked people to give up their posessions and join him, pretty inspiring stuff.

 

The only

[Panther]

The only

[Panther]

jfc....Dante didn't invent the concept.

 

Don't you have another conspiracy theory to uncork?

 

Yes, but I also have some time for this thread I dont see your point.

don't you have another coincednce to ignore? dude Ive been paying close attention to your posts and I want to out you to everyone.

 

Spawns dad is totally a whack job coincedence theorist. there goes your cred dude

[Panther]

I am not a medieval scholar, but I am pretty sure Dante did not make up hell out of whole cloth.

 

well I do know for a fact that the word hell as used in the bible means the grave not some eternal place of suffering,

and while their are some bible verses that use the words fire and sinners the modern western image of hell did stem from dante enferno.I could be wrong.

Allot of whats in the bible makes no sense from the christian perspective which is understandable considering there are only a handful of stories about christ himself and allot of other stuff hello revelations people. Are there any bible buffs out there did Jesus ever speak of the antichrist and all that crazy goblidigook?

[lost highway]

2. our earlthy exterior self is the pretenious self and we all have that inner conflict between our true selves and our prententious exterior selves.

3.An atheist would have to say their is no soul because there is not physical evidence for it but we all know thats rubbish we can feel our souls we exist in a dream world when we go to sleep

 

2. You are a dualist.

 

3. Some call that the psyche. A soul is immortal, sentient experience both waking and dreaming can be considered part of an impermanent center of perception called 'the self'.

[Panther]

2. You are a dualist.

 

3. Some call that the psyche. A soul is immortal, sentient experience both waking and dreaming can be considered part of an impermanent center of perception called 'the self'.

 

 

yes I am definetly a dualist , if your not serving good you are serving evil. At the same time Im not an absolutist so there is always another angel to uncover.

 

impermanent center of perception called 'the self'.

I like that alot.

 

"it might be the devil or it might be the lord but your gonna have to serve somebody" Bob Dylan

[yermom]

There are two dualisms in discussion here, I believe. There's the mind/body dualism and the good/evil dualism.

 

This kind of stuff almost makes me miss the days when the frustrating posts in atheism threads were frustrating because someone had actually taken the time to read up on what they were arguing about and provided many, many, links to well-written articles.

[Panther]

There are two dualisms in discussion here, I believe. There's the mind/body dualism and the good/evil dualism.

 

This kind of stuff almost makes me miss the days when the frustrating posts in atheism threads were frustrating because someone had actually taken the time to read up on what they were arguing about and provided many, many, links to well-written articles.

 

 

Did you ever think that the dualism of mind/body and good/evil are the same?

I often do its like we have to strugle with this as humans, are body is the beast and are mind is the spirit.

It is as if the theorhetical struglle between good and evil love and satan are imprinted within everyone of us.

 

I can't imagine existence without my body the notion of being some spirit existening as consciousness alone frightens me.

I seriously doubt that their is a literal satan someplace(of course I could be completly wrong, about everything I belive to be true.)

I have always taken it as a metaphor for the human strugle, we could discuss this further Im sure you could come up with endless examples of the mind in conflict with the body or the spirit in conflict with the beast.

[lost highway]

Wow that is some powerfully medieval neurosis at work. Do you practice self flagellation?

 

It does us no service to mistrust our bodies. The natural world is dynamic and plentiful, it is not only the cause but the very grounds of our every experience. Mistrust of the natural and the body itself is based only on fear of impermanence. We fear death and decay, so when our bodies exhibit these tendencies we call them names like "beast" or "evil". Evil is a purely human invention, it has no fundamental root in nature. The very subjectivity of its definition (as seen in a cross-cultural comparison) is the perfect illustration of its willy-nilly, artificial nature.

 

Why can't matter be spiritual? It holds the dynamics and essence of the spirit, it is smart and productive.

[Panther]

Wow that is some powerfully medieval neurosis at work. Do you practice self flagellation?

 

It does us no service to mistrust our bodies. The natural world is dynamic and plentiful, it is not only the cause but the very grounds of our every experience. Mistrust of the natural and the body itself is based only on fear of impermanence. We fear death and decay, so when our bodies exhibit these tendencies we call them names like "beast" or "evil". Evil is a purely human invention, it has no fundamental root in nature. The very subjectivity of its definition (as seen in a cross-cultural comparison) is the perfect illustration of its willy-nilly, artificial nature.

 

Why can't matter be spiritual? It holds the dynamics and essence of the spirit, it is smart and productive.

 

nope I don't, but I see your point. At the same time if we as humans are part of nature and evil is a human invention then evil dose have a root in nature.

Though again I see what your saying. why can't matter be spiritual? I guesse it can and surely the body is a gift. but it is not the same thing as the mind.

Im not saaying hate your body at all I was just using the priciaples of dualism to show the struglle bettween the mind and body, would you agree that there is indeed a strugle?

 

"the very subjectivity of its definition is the perfect illustration of its willy nilly,artificial nature"

brilliant and I completly agree that evil is artifical, the way you stated it clicked in my head. But just because evil is artifical that dosent mean that their is a struggle and that it is indeed powerful, there are many artifical things that hold weight in this "world".

 

I do not call the body "beast" out of hate you took it the wrong way just think about it in realist terms , we were talking about dualism.

 

Beast

1 a: a four-footed mammal as distinguished from a human being, a lower vertebrate, and an invertebrate b: a lower animal as distinguished from a human being c: an animal as distinguished from a plant d: an animal under human control

something formidably difficult to control or deal with

 

with and without the mind the body is all of these things, you could call evolution a theoryt of the mind triumphing over the "beast"

 

but again I think your points were well stated , and I am no absolutist I just thought what I said made sesne lol

[Panther]

SPELLCHECK ALERT

 

nope I don't, but I see your point. At the same time if we as humans are part of nature and evil is a human invention then evil dose have a root in nature.

Though again I see what your saying. why can't matter be spiritual? I guess it can and surely the body is a gift. But it is not the same thing as the mind, which is what I was referring to as the spirit.

I

[mastershake]

so why is this thread 48 pages? did jeff come in somewhere and state his official opinion?

[lost highway]

It would be a perfect experiment: Start thread with title linking highly controversial and personal idea and Wilco. Allow members to link idea to Wilco for 1-2 pages. Then watch as controversial idea takes over and a sometimes civil, sometimes rude and other times hilarious debate circles round for 50 pages with little mention of Wilco.

[Good Old Neon]

SPELLCHECK ALERT

 

nope I don't, but I see your point. At the same time if we as humans are part of nature and evil is a human invention then evil dose have a root in nature.

Though again I see what your saying. why can't matter be spiritual? I guess it can and surely the body is a gift. But it is not the same thing as the mind, which is what I was referring to as the spirit.

I

[kwall]

Because people who believe in Jesus, by definition, believe I am going to hell for being Jewish.

jesus was jewish. by definition.

 

You can tell me that you don't believe this to be the case, but you are deviating from the teachings of your religion.

i think you need to brush up on the teachings of jesus.

[Basil II]

GOD or GODHEAD(CREATOR) is more logical than no creator given creation or existence anyone have a better logic?

 

 

I liked PKD's idea of VALIS

 

Vast Active Living Intellegence System

 

 

-Robert