In the spirit of bipartisanship...

[ikol]

There's been so much partisan back and forth ad nauseum, I thought it would be nice to start a thread about the issues on which you disagree with your party/side. There's so many issues and so many different ways to think about them that it's pretty much impossible for one to agree with any one side on everything. (At least I hope everyone's not either a McCain or Obama sycophant zombie.) So where is your side wrong and the other side right? I'll start:

 

I am against the death penalty and torturing military prisoners. I am closer to the liberal side on gay marriage/pseudo-marriage-civil-unions or whatever (mainly, I just want the government uninvolved altogether). I am for legalizing pretty much all drugs, prostitution, gambling, selling liquor on Sundays and being able to order it by mail from other states. I am against teaching creationism in public schools. I am against No Child Left Behind (though I don't necessarily instead agree with the liberal/democrat side as I want public education run at a state/local level).

 

There are probably others, but that's a good start.

[Spawn's dad]

I vote for a politics forum. There's far too many threads.

[lost highway]

I disagree with the donkey as mascot. Come on, get a good one. Democrats need to be owls not jackasses.

[ikol]

I vote for a politics forum. There's far too many threads.

 

Then there would be far too many forums.

 

I disagree with the donkey as mascot. Come on, get a good one. Democrats need to be owls not jackasses.

 

Democrats are a lot dumber than they look and stay up all night eating rodents?

[NightOfJoy]

I wish the Dems would finally come to the realization that the US of A under the guidance of the GOP is simply performing God's will.

[lost highway]

Democrats are a lot dumber than they look and stay up all night eating rodents?

 

We can smell a rat from around a mountain (hmm-mmm Palin).

 

The Owl is a universal symbol of wisdom. If you slander them your efforts will be thwarted with bad ju-ju.

[JUDE]

There's been so much partisan back and forth ad nauseum, I thought it would be nice to start a thread about the issues on which you disagree with your party/side. There's so many issues and so many different ways to think about them that it's pretty much impossible for one to agree with any one side on everything. (At least I hope everyone's not either a McCain or Obama sycophant zombie.) So where is your side wrong and the other side right? I'll start:

 

I am against the death penalty and torturing military prisoners. I am closer to the liberal side on gay marriage/pseudo-marriage-civil-unions or whatever (mainly, I just want the government uninvolved altogether). I am for legalizing pretty much all drugs, prostitution, gambling, selling liquor on Sundays and being able to order it by mail from other states. I am against teaching creationism in public schools. I am against No Child Left Behind (though I don't necessarily instead agree with the liberal/democrat side as I want public education run at a state/local level).

 

There are probably others, but that's a good start.

 

I think this is a good start for a party platform. You should start one, I'd support it.

[jenbobblehead]

I am against the constant democrat whining. JHC people, sack up and get the job done. We lose elections because you piss them away, not for any other reason. Ger 'er DONE!

 

I am also anti-union and for school vouchers. Although if we could do away with teachers unions and make it a more competitive job that pays a living wage then I might back down on vouchers, but schools that are being hamstrung by teachers unions who refuse to move with the times have no place in my politics.

[Good Old Neon]

I think this is a good start for a party platform. You should start one, I'd support it.

 

Quick, Ikol, change your name to Obama, but keep it a secret until after JUDE votes you into office - and then - BAM - suck it JUDE!

[bjorn_skurj]

Their ironclad support of the Second Amendment. Fuckin' bear will fuck you up, man.

[sweetheart-mine]

i think this is a great idea for a thread!

 

i am for the death penalty, under very limited circumstances.

i now think "political correctness" has gone too far and to a certain extent muddied freedom of speech.

i think many of the democrats in washington today have no guts and give up their real values to get elected or to get funded.

i think many of the democrats in washington today, because they lack the courage of their original convictions, act like victims too often.

 

i am an independent, not a democrat, but since i vote democratic way more often than not, i addressed where i differ from them and what i see as some of their flaws.

 

 

p.s. oh, i just read bjorn's. that too.

[uncool2pillow]

I am a registered Republican (actually a temporary dem. to vote in a local primary). I agree w/ my friends on the left on a lot of the social issues. I am pro-civil union and pro-choice (though anti Roe v. Wade, don't ask, it's complicated). I still consider myself a Republican because my party should believe in limited government. As a public school teacher (yes, and a Republican), I believe George Bush and congress hijacked the public schools with the NCLB law. From a "conservative" president... Please!

[viatroy]

My biggest problem with the Dems is the 'fox guarding the henhouse' issue. Until the election process and campaign finance is truly reformed, government will continue to serve corporate interests rather than citizen interests.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I am also anti-union and for school vouchers. Although if we could do away with teachers unions and make it a more competitive job that pays a living wage then I might back down on vouchers, but schools that are being hamstrung by teachers unions who refuse to move with the times have no place in my politics.

 

I know a number of very qualified teachers who would gladly take you to school on this issue!

 

I am a registered Republican (actually a temporary dem. to vote in a local primary). I agree w/ my friends on the left on a lot of the social issues. I am pro-civil union and pro-choice (though anti Roe v. Wade, don't ask, it's complicated). I still consider myself a Republican because my party should believe in limited government. As a public school teacher (yes, and a Republican), I believe George Bush and congress hijacked the public schools with the NCLB law. From a "conservative" president... Please!

 

Indeed. But both sides of the aisle show their stupidity on education. Create standards, don't fund them but hold the teachers responsible for them. Grade schools and students with standardized tests, but have the tests scored by uneducated civil service employees. Require more documentation than a teacher can get through in an 8-hour day, and yet also require that they teach kids morals, sex education, creationism, exercise parents kids because they're fat -- and don't require a parent to be responsible for anything. Hard to make a living wage when you're having to spend out of your own pocket for school supplies because the schools won't provide them and you can't ask the parents to.

[bobbob1313]

I'll note what I know I disagree with each party on:

 

Democrats: Guns cannot be banned. Guns are too far a part of our culture, for better or worse, to get rid of them.

We can't be out of Iraq in 18 months.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't see how universal health care is feasible, though there were some good suggestions made there that could change my mind.

I am against affirmative action (And I'm not an old white guy!)

I think Obama's suggestion of a windfall profits tax is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

I'm sure there's more.

 

Republicans: People shouldn't be allowed to buy any gun they want. Nobody needs an automatic weapon in our country. AK's are for the streets of bagdhad.

I am pretty much always against the death penalty.

I am pretty much always against torture.

I am pro-choice.

At least in Florida, NCLB has fucked up a lot of schools, including my high school. That place has gone in the dumps recently.

 

I'm sure there's more.

 

My problem is that, as anyone can see from my posts, I'm a fence sitter. The world is fucking confusing, and on most issues, I simply don't know how I feel on them.

[Hixter]

Republicans: People shouldn't be allowed to buy any gun they want. Nobody needs an automatic weapon in our country. AK's are for the streets of bagdhad.

 

You do know that automatic weapons are illegal in this country, right?

[bobbob1313]

You do know that automatic weapons are illegal in this country, right?

 

Well. Good.

[uncool2pillow]

I am also anti-union and for school vouchers. Although if we could do away with teachers unions and make it a more competitive job that pays a living wage then I might back down on vouchers, but schools that are being hamstrung by teachers unions who refuse to move with the times have no place in my politics.

I don't belong to the union, but they're not as much of the problem as the entire educational bureaucracy. My main beefs with the NEA are:

 

1. They are absolutely opposed to any form of merit teacher. A more experience teacher is usually, but certainly not always better and there are some fair ways to measure this. Will it be perfect? No, but the current system does not provide external incentives for teachers to excel.

2. They have made it too difficult to fire bad teachers.

3. The national union takes stand on issues not at all related to education. It's the NEA, not a political party.

 

I think I've said elsewhere on this board that I would be all for vouchers if any school that accepts a voucher has to abide by all the same rules that public schools have to. One of the things that makes many private schools better is that they can hand pick their students and have a little more autonomy as a school building than public schools can.

[LouieB]

I wish the Dems would finally come to the realization that the US of A under the guidance of the GOP is simply performing God's will.

Hallelujah....

 

Nothing wrong with No Child Left Behind that a few more dollars and a few less tests wouldn't help. NCLB is merely federal education funds, which have been around for decades and been supported by both parties over the years, with a name and philosophy given by Bush and supported by Kennedy and just about everyone in between. It has needed a reauthorization for a couple years and will finally get a make-over after the upcoming election.....

 

Also it helped pay me a few times in the past, so I ain't gonna complain.

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

Nothing wrong with No Child Left Behind that a few more dollars and a few less tests wouldn't help. NCLB is merely federal education funds, which have been around for decades and been supported by both parties over the years, with a name and philosophy given by Bush and supported by Kennedy and just about everyone in between. It has needed a reauthorization for a couple years and will finally get a make-over after the upcoming election.....

It very much needs a makeover. One of the main premises of NCLB is that by 2014 ALL students will be proficient in math, reading, and science. This is the schools' responsibility. Parents and students have none, nor can they legally, obviously. Each state was allowed to define proficient in their own way, with federal approval. Iowa's definition is scoring above the 40th percentile on ITBS tests. By that definition, 40 percent of the students will ALWAYS be defined as not proficient. It is statistically impossible to have all students proficient.

[lost highway]

Grading schools is problematic for a myriad of reasons. I see this happen all the time:

 

School in shitty neighborhood has to perform to get better funding. Shitty neighborhood has messed up parents with messed up kids. School tests low and is not granted better funding. Score is published and the small community of parents that give a shit at the school decide to have their kids apply to go to neighboring school that is slightly better. Awesome extra curricular program can not start due to cut in funding. Families buying a house avoid neighborhood in district of school that tested poorly. Economy in shitty neighborhood doesn't approve much and doesn't get a lot of help with all of the young families not moving to it.

 

Put that on a street with ten houses in one block for sale due to foreclosures and I would say you came up with a nice ghetto cocktail.

[tugmoose]

Sign at RNC: "Drill, Baby, Drill!" Why the hell not? Let's suck it dry, then move on.

 

Palin's outfit rather fetching. . . . "Game On!"

 

McCain's mom: Not too shabby!

[Central Scrutinizer]

I don't belong to the union, but they're not as much of the problem as the entire educational bureaucracy. My main beefs with the NEA are:

 

1. They are absolutely opposed to any form of merit teacher. A more experience teacher is usually, but certainly not always better and there are some fair ways to measure this. Will it be perfect? No, but the current system does not provide external incentives for teachers to excel.

2. They have made it too difficult to fire bad teachers.

3. The national union takes stand on issues not at all related to education. It's the NEA, not a political party.

 

I think I've said elsewhere on this board that I would be all for vouchers if any school that accepts a voucher has to abide by all the same rules that public schools have to. One of the things that makes many private schools better is that they can hand pick their students and have a little more autonomy as a school building than public schools can.

1. My wife, a teacher, is opposed to merit pay. I don't think there are ways to measure a teacher's effectiveness. It's not like it's in a vacuum (hey the kid was screwed up when I got him). The teacher's success is as much (if not more) a produce of the kid's environment. Parents don't even talk to their kid, let along try to help him along.

2. I hate to raise it, but one of the reasons it's hard to fire bad teachers is if one bad teacher is black, it becomes a race issue. So you can't fire white teachers who are on a same level because it's reverse discrimination.

3. NEA where we're at is a joke. And yes they waste more time on things that they don't directly control, rather than getting decent pay for teachers, and backing them up when parents and lawmakers expect them to work a 26-hour day, and to be responsible for all those things that parents fall down on doing.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Grading schools is problematic for a myriad of reasons. I see this happen all the time:

 

School in shitty neighborhood has to perform to get better funding. Shitty neighborhood has messed up parents with messed up kids. School tests low and is not granted better funding. Score is published and the small community of parents that give a shit at the school decide to have their kids apply to go to neighboring school that is slightly better. Awesome extra curricular program can not start due to cut in funding. Families buying a house avoid neighborhood in district of school that tested poorly. Economy in shitty neighborhood doesn't approve much and doesn't get a lot of help with all of the young families not moving to it.

 

Put that on a street with ten houses in one block for sale due to foreclosures and I would say you came up with a nice ghetto cocktail.

In Florida it's the exact opposite. Bad schools in bad neighborhoods get most money, incentives for teachers to move there. Bad neighborhoods are bad neighborhoods for a reason -- the people who live there are lower class, but many create their own problems (I know I sound conservation). When the bad schools continue to fail, the local kid can opt out and get into one of the best schools in town -- thereby affecting the talent pool at the best schools.

 

My problem is that, as anyone can see from my posts, I'm a fence sitter. The world is fucking confusing, and on most issues, I simply don't know how I feel on them.

I think that is a common problem. The problem with most people with that problem is they don't bother to even think about working out the issues, or showing any intellectual curiosity.

 

Be safe with Ike man, that thing looks like it's gonna hit somewhere on the eastern side of the state.

[EL the Famous]

Sign at RNC: "Drill, Baby, Drill!" Why the hell not? Let's suck it dry, then move on.

 

that's where I differ as well. i'd rather not see us have to, but i'm thinking these alternative sources are going to take a while.

 

throw in some concerns over national healthcare and immigration reform that weigh heavy on me enough not to be completely down w/ the party line either.