Guest Jules Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Yes, and that is way second base is an easier position than shortstop. And relatively easy in general. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 For a guy like Chase Utley, who has played 2B his whole life, it's probably easier than 1B. But for someone who has never played either, I'd say the transition is going to be a lot easier if you are at first than second. I agree with all of this. I am not sure how this argument got turned around. I definitely think that shitty defensive players can, and often do, get stuck at 1b where it's easy(ier) to hide. The fact that teams do it is evidence of nothing. How many picks of errant throws don't get made? How many runners don't get forced out at 2b on a sacrifice bunt? The fact that it's easier to do a "bad but serviceable" job at 1b doesn't mean that 1b is easier than 2b. It means it's easier to do a bad job at 1b. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ok, so now we have an actual argument!! I'd argue that the 3-6-3 DP is the hardest play on the infield.3-6-3 is pretty tough, but it is really pretty rare compared to 2b turns. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ranging to your right to field a sharply hit grounder by a leftie, and then turning and throwing to first while your momentum carries you away from the bag is much more difficult than any of the possible plays a 1B has to make, and requires much more athletic ability. Actually, there it is. I figured it out. It might not be more difficult, but playing 2B requires far more athletic ability. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Actually, there it is. I figured it out. It might not be more difficult, but playing 2B requires far more athletic ability.I will agree with this. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 playing 2B requires far more athletic ability. I can agree with this. It's also why the "you'd never put your 1b at 2b, but you could put your 2b at 1b" is besides the point. It's a different position built for a different type of player. It's also why good offensive 2bs are so valuable. To have someone with the range and athleticism to play 2b and to put up offensive numbers like Utley is tremendously valuable. (And yes, I'd argue more valuable than 1b ) Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I can agree with this. It's also why the "you'd never put your 1b at 2b, but you could put your 2b at 1b" is besides the point. It's a different position built for a different type of player. It's also why good offensive 2bs are so valuable. To have someone with the range and athleticism to play 2b and to put up offensive numbers like Utley is tremendously valuable. (And yes, I'd argue more valuable than 1b ) Plus Utley's probably the best defensive 2B in baseball. And he's ridiculous with the bat in his hands. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Plus Utley's probably the best defensive 2B in baseball. And he's ridiculous with the bat in his hands. Vegas had set the odds for "everyone agreeing in the end" at 30-1. I hope you people got your bets in. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Jesus, I hope the Mets find some other solution at second base other than Luis Castillo. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Jesus, I hope the Mets find some other solution at second base other than Luis Castillo. His .376 OBP, .376 SLG would make for a pretty good leadoff hitter next year. Link to post Share on other sites
CrushOfVeils80 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Keith Hernandez is ok but he makes you help him move Link to post Share on other sites
CrushOfVeils80 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 second base is probably the easiest position in baseball, thats just my humble opinion and that was my position in HS so I do love the position I stand by Mauer being the MVP, thats not anti Pedroia (he would have been 2nd or 3rd on my list with Youk the other suspect) Im just pro Mauer, what he did with that staff was incredible when they were picked last this year by just about everyone and he won the batting title at the most physically demanding position by far in baseball, before Mauer I believe the last catcher to win a batting title was Joe Torre in the 70's and Mauer has now won it twice Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 His .376 OBP, .376 SLG would make for a pretty good leadoff hitter next year.We have one of those already! Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 We have one of those already! Castillo's mix of high OBP no SLG is more suited for the leadoff than Reyes slightly above average skills in both. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Castillo's mix of high OBP no SLG is more suited for the leadoff than Reyes slightly above average skills in both.That might make sense. Castillo's name is mud, though. The fans would flip and Reyes would probably get a complex. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It just hit me how much whiter the Red Sox got today. Damn. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 That might make sense. Castillo's name is mud, though. The fans would flip and Reyes would probably get a complex. Well, yeah. Because Reyes has the rep as "Greatest lead off hitter since Rickey", when he's really just "Fast guy who doesn't get on base enough to even be Rickey's shitty little brother". It just hit me how much whiter the Red Sox got today. Damn. Some guy on the Marlins board said the other day that the reason the Marlins traded Olsen and Willingham for Bonifacio and Gregg for Ceda is to become more hispanic to try and appeal to the cubans in little havana. He was laughed off the board. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Ranging to your right to field a sharply hit grounder by a leftie, and then turning and throwing to first while your momentum carries you away from the bag is much more difficult than any of the possible plays a 1B has to make, and requires much more athletic ability.Wait. Are you saying that first basemen never have to range to their right to field sharply hit grounders, then throw toward first while their momentum is carrying them away from the bag? Factor in, also, that an awful lot of first basemen are left-handed, and that throw gets even harder -- oh, and it's to a moving target (the pitcher running over to cover). I still agree strongly with the initial point that Jules made -- that 2B is not really a "much more difficult position" than 1B. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Wait. Are you saying that first basemen never have to range to their right to field sharply hit grounders, then throw toward first while their momentum is carrying them away from the bag? Factor in, also, that an awful lot of first basemen are left-handed, and that throw gets even harder -- oh, and it's to a moving target (the pitcher running over to cover). I still agree strongly with the initial point that Jules made -- that 2B is not really a "much more difficult position" than 1B. A first baseman almost never really "ranges" to their right. If a first baseman has to range to his right, chances are the 2nd baseman has an easier play on it. And if the first baseman does have to make that play, the throw is generally a good 60-70 feet shorter than the one the 2nd baseman has to make. It might not necessarily be a more or less difficult position, but it requires substantially more athleticism, and usually a stronger arm. I don't think that's an opinion type of statement, it's a watching baseball statement. I think most people would say that since it requires more athleticism and a better arm, it is more difficult. I would agree with that, but I don't think you have to agree with the fact that it's more difficult to agree that 2nd basemen are almost always more athletic than 1st basemen. And Jude's initial contention doesn't matter. It's an opinion thing. But it is a position that place more of a premium on defense, so a player like Pedroia who can play good defense and hit well has more value than his counterpart at 1B, because that combination of skills at that position is substantially more rare. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Which is to say that Vaughn sucks.But don't forget: he was the MVP one year. Link to post Share on other sites
CrushOfVeils80 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Mets should sign David Eckstein to play second base, he is a winner and would be a good fit Link to post Share on other sites
CrushOfVeils80 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 But don't forget: he was the MVP one year. and Vaughn had a much better year than Albert Belle or Edgar Martinez in 1995 Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Mets should sign David Eckstein to play second base, he is a winner and would be a good fitI told them to do that last year, but no dice. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I heard Bernie Williams wants to try out for the Yankees. Link to post Share on other sites
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