Cafe threatend for playing cds...

[remphish1]

http://www.kmbc.com/cnn-news/17842078/detail.html

[Sir Stewart]

That is effing crazy.

[mjpuczko]

that's fuckin' ridiculous. wow.

[PopTodd]

http://www.kmbc.com/cnn-news/17842078/detail.html

 

Performance royalties are a viable revenue stream for artists. It's generally not very much, but nonetheless, if you are a struggling artist and you sell a chunk of records, most of that $ goes to the label, but if the songs are played on the radio, or in a business, that $ goes directly to you.

 

Most artists you would think are making serious cash with their music are probably working some sort of day job or freelance gig to help pay their bills, too. (Unless they tour constantly and draw serious crowds every night.)

 

As an artist, it's kinda nice to have something/someone else looking out for me. Of course, going after a small business owner like that isn't the best PR. But $300 a year to BMI (and to the artists) isn't so bad, methinks.

Especially with all the illegal downloading going on now.

 

Just another P.O.V.

[cryptique]

I hate to say it, but it's been this way for decades, and I personally don't have much problem with it (though I do wonder how much of that money any of the artists actually see).

 

Any "public performance" of a copyrighted recording is subject to such fees. Any business that has been playing music over its speakers and isn't paying BMI/ASCAP fees is running the same risk as the place in the article.

 

A frequent way around this is to subscribe to Muzak. They offer some fairly low-cost options that include BMI/ASCAP licensing and different channels of music, similar to XM or Sirius.

 

Stockard said that when her year is up, she'll take her CD player out and revert to playing the radio.

I don't think she's read her mail closely enough -- I think the same fees apply to radio, too. It doesn't really matter where the song is being played -- on the premises or over the radio -- you need the performance license. It also applies to telephone on-hold music, which is why you so rarely hear recognizable songs when you're on hold.

 

I am not sure how all of this has evolved since satellite radio made its ascendance, but I can't imagine it's all that different in terms of the fee requirement.

[Artifice]

Performance royalties are a viable revenue stream for artists. It's generally not very much, but nonetheless, if you are a struggling artist and you sell a chunk of records, most of that $ goes to the label, but if the songs are played on the radio, or in a business, that $ goes directly to you.

 

You sure about that? Playing a CD isn't a performance right. It's a (re)play right, which the labels are usually pretty ruthless about retaining.

 

I think you'd be right if the band itself was playing a live set in house.

[jff]

There used to be a small bar in Atlanta that had live music on weekends. They had a jukebox, for which they payed the appropriate fees. Some goons from ASCAP showed up and started hassling the owner because the bar hosted live music. I don't remember the exact amount they demanded, but it was in the thousands and the business had no choice but to close (actually, they turned into a thrift store/flea market for a few months, then closed). The bands that played there were all small time local bands who were not affiliated with BMI/ASCAP or whoever else, and who were not playing cover tunes.

 

Several years ago, there was an article in the Washington Post (or possibly another DC paper) about a similar situation at a bar called Madam's Organ in DC. This kind of story pops up in the news every few years. I think it's a god damn disgrace.

[PopTodd]

You sure about that? Playing a CD isn't a performance right. It's a (re)play right, which the labels are usually pretty ruthless about retaining.

 

I think you'd be right if the band itself was playing a live set in house.

 

 

I think it depends upon the contract.

But, of course, I am not an expert on such things. This is just all what I have come to believe, as a BMI affiliated artist.

Also, obviously, these companies are not capable of monitoring every such business; this particular cafe simply happened to get unlucky.

[Analogman]

Don't they have someone go around and check these things? Such as - if someone has a license on the jukebox, or whatever it is. I wonder if this applies to someone listening to music in the backroom, as well as, music being played for the benefit of customers.

[remphish1]

I wonder what artist was playing when they caught them? Was it definatley on their label?

 

[PopTodd]

Don't they have someone go around and check these things? Such as - if someone has a license on the jukebox, or whatever it is. I wonder if this applies to someone listening to music in the backroom, as well as, music being played for the benefit of customers.

 

I believe it's only for public performance, i.e. for customers.

Personal play has already been payed for when you buy the CD/mp3/whatever.

[Analogman]

I believe it's only for public performance, i.e. for customers.

Personal play has already been payed for when you buy the CD/mp3/whatever.

 

That's what I figured. I have never heard of a place getting busted for playing cds, but I know a place that got busted for not paying, and having people playing music in their restaurant.

[Sly like a Foxwell]

a place in my hometown was closed after the same thing happened. they got slapped with fines, and had to close

[Sir Stewart]

I once payed a waitress $10 to stop playing a Dave Matthews CD. True story.

[poppydawn]

I worked at a restaurant nearly 20 years ago that got busted for playing unlicensed music (tapes, I think, since the owner was too damn cheap to pay for anything). I don't know how much the laws have changed since then, but it's definitely not a new thing.

[mfwahl]

This is sad. While I understand the importance to the songwriter, I can't believe these goons are doing this based on a love of music. There has to be better ways to work this out. People hear songs in bars and cafes that they like and then buy the CD. Also, bar owners need to be able to play music. There's gotta be a better way than potentially shutting down a business.

 

Why don't they bust my dentist for playing that shit smooth jazz?

[hardwood floor]

I once payed a waitress $10 to stop playing a Dave Matthews CD. True story.

 

a bargain!

[Doug C]

I never thought about all of this before but it makes sense. Not that I necessarily agree with it but I understand the copyright law. So the best jukeboxes in Tampa at the New World Brewery and The Hub are illegal if the bars aren't paying BMI and ASCAP? I'll have to ask my mom if she and my dad paid licensing fees for the jukebox at Carter's Drive In in the 60s. I'll be surprised if she even knows what in the hell I'm talking about.

[cryptique]

So the best jukeboxes in Tampa at the New World Brewery and The Hub are illegal if the bars aren't paying BMI and ASCAP?

I don't know exactly how jukeboxes are handled, but I would guess that there are companies that lease them to bars and other places, and the licensing is probably part of the lease.

 

But again, that's just a guess. I really have no idea.

[jff]

Jukebox licensing Q&A:

 

http://www.jukeboxlicense.com/Q_A.htm#responsibility

[John Smith]

Performance royalties are a viable revenue stream for artists. It's generally not very much, but nonetheless, if you are a struggling artist and you sell a chunk of records, most of that $ goes to the label, but if the songs are played on the radio, or in a business, that $ goes directly to you.

 

Most artists you would think are making serious cash with their music are probably working some sort of day job or freelance gig to help pay their bills, too. (Unless they tour constantly and draw serious crowds every night.)

 

As an artist, it's kinda nice to have something/someone else looking out for me. Of course, going after a small business owner like that isn't the best PR. But $300 a year to BMI (and to the artists) isn't so bad, methinks.

Especially with all the illegal downloading going on now.

 

Just another P.O.V.

 

If you are a "struggling" artist wouldn't you want the exposure? And if memory serves me correctly don't struggling artists make zip on royalties anyway? I think the deal is a crock.

 

I also don't think playing the radio will solve the issue for the shop owner. Something is making me think that shhe will still have the roaylties to pay anyway.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I hate to say it, but it's been this way for decades, and I personally don't have much problem with it (though I do wonder how much of that money any of the artists actually see).

 

Any "public performance" of a copyrighted recording is subject to such fees. Any business that has been playing music over its speakers and isn't paying BMI/ASCAP fees is running the same risk as the place in the article.

 

A frequent way around this is to subscribe to Muzak. They offer some fairly low-cost options that include BMI/ASCAP licensing and different channels of music, similar to XM or Sirius.

 

 

I don't think she's read her mail closely enough -- I think the same fees apply to radio, too. It doesn't really matter where the song is being played -- on the premises or over the radio -- you need the performance license. It also applies to telephone on-hold music, which is why you so rarely hear recognizable songs when you're on hold.

 

I am not sure how all of this has evolved since satellite radio made its ascendance, but I can't imagine it's all that different in terms of the fee requirement.

 

I think you're allowed to have radio on in a business establishment without paying royalties, because the radio station is paying the royalty. Most businesses don't want to do that, though, because regular radio sucks. It's full of ads, including ads for competitive businesses.

 

These days a lot of smaller companies go through XM or Sirius (now I guess just "XM Sirius"), which each offer business plans for around $30 a month. They pay the royalties, and the business gets ad-free music that's more or less tailored to their clientele (though not as specialized as Muzak).

[Doug C]

Jukebox licensing Q&A:

 

http://www.jukeboxlicense.com/Q_A.htm#responsibility

Thanks1 I can't wait to say, "Mom, did you and dad have a JLA from the JLO or were you turning me on to excellent music illegally?