Hold on just one damn minute...

[Spawn's dad]

certainly he showed he has the patience to wait before carpet bombing.

[Dude]

again, i know you can't ignore it and i'd sure as hell never suggest anyone forget it...i just thought that (IMO) there was too much focus on it and that is at least slightly counterproductive to the fact we've moved that far beyond it.

Explain to this kid at 1:10 in that we've moved far beyond it and that he has no reason to feel the emotional weight of what's happened:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/...ref=videosearch

 

I think you run the risk of being cold-hearted to ignore what this means to some people, and to suggest that their voices shouldn't be heard. I get what you're saying regarding Obama's candidacy not forefronting race (along the lines of what a Jesse Jackson did in 1984) and that race didn't play a significant role in any of the political discourse, the debates or speeches. Even that seems a little skewed, as one of Obama's key moments in the campaign was the Wright-inspired March 18 Race Speech, and many of Obama's far right leaning critics used all kinds of public and private ways to express their doubts about his race, even going so far as to suggest he was an Arab or a Muslim.

 

Again, to ignore all of that seems like you have a superficial grasp of the role race played even if Obama himself wasn't playing the race card throughout the campaign.

[IATTBYB]

I mean, one of the black kids I work with came in today and said "We won". All I could think of was that old Chris Rock joke about the OJ Trial:

 

"'WE WON! WE WON!'

 

'What the fuck did we win? I'm still waiting on my OJ prize!'"

Well, although Michael Irvin, formerly from the U and the Dallas Cowboys, may not be the definitive source, his remarks on the Mike & Mike show yesterday give a pretty good perspective on the OJ-style celebration you observed:

 

"What a historical moment that was last night. ... From an African-American standpoint, I watched my people -- watched my people -- celebrate the not guilty verdict of O.J. Simpson. They were so hungry for a victory of some kind that they celebrated -- we celebrated -- the verdict of O.J. And I was thinking to myself, 'Two people are dead. Two people are dead' Now, I'm not talking about my people, I'm explaining them here. They were just so hungry to say 'We have a victory.' And I cringe when I even think about that.

 

"But last night I watched a celebration. A real celebration. A real celebration, and it was a celebration for everybody, and everybody celebrated, and they kept showing this shot, and I was watching, of this little black girl and this little white girl, just sitting there crying together, and I thought, wow. I thought about Martin Luther King and his 'I Have a Dream' speech, and I thought about him saying, black kids and white kids playing together. ...

 

"Last night we removed all differences and became just one, and I thought that was a beautiful thing. It was just a beautiful thing. I stood here with my kids, we watched it and we cried and we prayed."

[elston gunn]

This is pretty awesome. That's one guy who's brain I'd love to pick this morning. You can never really trust what comes out of his mouth, but if he's playing Blowing In The Wind after a statement like that, I don't think he's being sarcastic. He may be full of sh*t when he gives quotes, but I don't think he's ever full of sh*t when he plays his music.

 

I think he really mean it. He also played Times they are a-Changing, Masters Of War and John Brown. I don't think he has played all those together very often this year.

[LouieB]

[quote name='Đ

[NightOfJoy]

What a beautiful, resounding repudiation of the last horrible eight years of the neo-con regime.

 

Today, I'm still proud to be a liberal, but also a little prouder to be American. Some of you guys might think I'm just an old sarcastic bastard, part of the so-called "angry Left," but the reason so many of us on the Left were angry was the Bush-Cheney doctrine of "Fuck everybody else, we'll bomb anyone we want pre-emptively." I shed a few tears last night.

 

Hmm, so now I'm part of the happy Left!

 

I'm with ya 100% brutha!

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Race wasn't the main issue though, which is what makes it truly historic. He got

elected on his merits, not as an affirmative action deal.

 

If the economy hadn't tanked and/or McCain picked a running mate who didn't

derail the campaign this easily could have swung a different way. But Obama

showed stability and leadership in the campaign and that's why he won.

 

Yes, there's historic perspective, but if it's made to be all about color that's

doing everyone a disservice. It's all just stays about color then. We get stuck

seeing the differences between people. Not the similarities. Not the leadership

qualities. Obama isn't going to be my black president. Just my president.

 

I am Daddy Crow Magnus and I endorse this message.

[jimmyjimmy]

Is it tacky that I haven't taken down my Obama yard sign?

You've got a window of a few days yet to go....mine comes down Monday.

[NightOfJoy]

[quote name='Đ

[watch me fall]

You've got a window of a few days yet to go....mine comes down Monday.

Good to know. Mine's still up, too!

[Sir Stewart]

I think 6 days is the standard wait - when Little Election Day comes.

[EL the Famous]

[quote name='Đ

[Sir Stewart]

it was THAT speech that convinced me he was a man i wanted to see as president.

 

Hey, me too!

[Dude]

jesus fucking christ.

Is this you being calm?

 

holding him to different standard...either postively or negatively...because of his race, is wrong. i feel pretty confident that our president-elect himself would say the same thing.

 

I don't think anyone here or in the media is doing that. If you could provide examples of someone saying "he is black, therefore he will be a better president" or a "worse president", I would love to see that. I think there's nearly universal agreement that his strengths as a leader will have nothing to do with his race.

 

What the mainstream media has focused on, on the other hand, are the things I just discussed.

[MattZ]

To me, it's a bigger and more historical event that a black man can stand up and be viewed as a man. Not a black man. Yes, bigger than the fact that we elected a black man as president. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I wish the media were covering that story more. (And I think that's what EL is saying too).

 

A black kid growing up today has a better chance to be whatever he wants to be because people don't see Obama as a black man. Not because one black guy got elected president.

[Guest Jules]

Calm down you freaks.

 

How do you think Obama would rank the Wilco albums?

[JUDE]

awesome.

[NightOfJoy]

Calm down you freaks.

 

How do you think Obama would rank the Wilco albums?

 

I'd like to think that Obama would prefer live recordings over the studio stuff.

[EL the Famous]

[quote name='Đ

[Winston Legthigh]

Calm down you freaks.

 

How do you think Obama would rank the Wilco albums?

 

"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that A.M. is an album where all things are possible; who still wonders if Being There is alive in our time; who still questions Summerteeth, Wilco is your answer.

 

It's the answer told by lines that stretched around the ticket booth for the 2007 Chicago residency; by people who waited three hours and four hours, many for the very first time in their lives, because they believed that this concert series must be different; that Wilco could be that difference.

 

It's the answer spoken by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, A Ghost is Born, Kicking Television and Sky Blue Sky, -- Americans who sent a message to the world that Wilco's work has never been a collection of alt.country and roots rock: we are, and always will be, the United Fans of Wilco."

[LouieB]

jesus fucking christ. could you and lou actually go back and read what i originally posted and maybe, just maybe, think just a little more about what bobob is saying as well. i won't speak for him, but show me anywhere that i said anyone, of color or not, has no reason to feel the emotional weight of what's happened! show me where i said that i choose to 'ignore what this means to some people' and/or 'suggest that their voices shouldn't be heard'!

I think I had a fairly rational convo with bobbob in the middle of the night last night, so there seems no reason to yell at me, even though I do suspect there was reason yesterday....

 

I am going to continue to maintain that Barack's racial make-up (at my house we toasted his Celtic background as well) wasn't a major part of the campaign per se, but it was a major part of the reason that many people supported him. Not to mention the fact that he handled himself so beautifully and McCain (also of celtic background) came off as a nut case part of the time and allowed Palin to call Obama a socialist and a pal of terrorists. But in my half asleep less irrational/gloating/dickwade moment I said something I also believe, that knowing that we all banded together and DID elect someone of color should unite us and inspire us; this is something to celebrate and is something to be proud of and that simply going on and thinking that Obama is just another president (to repeat...Bush was just another president) is ignoring history and ignoring the unique historical moment we all share. That's not being an arrogant know it all, that is what we NEED to take away from this moment, because it isn't going to always be this good. There are going to be tough and upsetting moments during the Obama presidency as there is with everyone (and has been constistantly for the past 8 years...) and so we have to try and harken back to these days to get through the bad ones.

 

Barack is going to be a great president, not because he is black, but because he is intelligent, curious, a good listener, doesn't have the kind of pre-concieved notions the Bush does/did, is willing to talk, process and make hard decision and won't do some of the crazy goddam bullshit that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did. So even when he missteps, which he will, we can be rest assured that it isn't because he isn't giving it is all. Shouldn't THAT be what we key in on? But at this point in history, his being the first not-totally white president will not go away. Believe me there are plenty of people who are going to wish him ill, because he isn't white. It is up to the rest of us to support him double.

 

Next up, a woman, hispanic, asian, gay, disabled (oh we had one of those..), or anything else non-tradition. The reign of half brain dead white male presidents is over. Oh another will be president some day but breaking that barrier is undeniable and historical and won't go away.

 

LouieB

[LouieB]

however, for example, lou admonishing bobob for wanting to get to moving past the historical relevance of him being a 'black' president and just a president...while not saying "he is black, therefore he will be a better president"...seems right on the cusp of that.

I am not sure if you are supporting me or not today, but in any event what I wrote above is the non-dickwade response to whatever is said. I am pretty much done with this. But if people want to ignore the history of slavery, racial segregation, racial dicrimination and the entire civil rights movement, I guess there isn't much to be done for them.

 

Oh and one last thing...(Columbo moment..) I know I took a ton of heat here for the half serious suggestion that Jeff Tweedy and Wilco suppporting Obama was important. IN the middle of the night last night I also realized that Wilco DID help Obama get elected. People do listen (if they more than half brain dead) to the figures they admire to determine how they should act. And guess what, that is okay. That's why papers endorse candidates, etc. So not only did Jeff help, but so did Bruce and Bob and Dan Savage and Oprah Winfrey and hundreds of other famous and semi famous people. We all did it by encouraging our friends and neighbors to vote and get involved and wear buttons and bumper stickers and give money, etc. etc. Let the celebration continue for four freaking years. (and let's hope Sarah Palin goes back to the frozen north and is never heard from again...)

 

LouieB

[Sir Stewart]

It's the answer told by lines that stretched around the ticket booth for the 2007 Chicago residency; by people who waited three hours and four hours, many for the very first time in their lives, because they believed that this concert series must be different; that Wilco could be that difference.

Man, he thinks the residency was in 2007 - I knew he was full of shit. I bet he thinks Chicago is in the 57th state, too. The real Obama shows himself!!

[EL the Famous]

who's ignoring anything other than, seemingly, what i'm posting?!

[Winston Legthigh]

Man, he thinks the residency was in 2007 - I knew he was full of shit. I bet he thinks Chicago is in the 57th state, too. The real Obama shows himself!!

oopsies.