The Post Election Thread

[MrRain422]

So not blindly accepting $1,000,000,000,000 in government spending is telling him to fuck himself? In what way is he reaching out to the other side? What compromises is he willing to make?

 

No, that's not at all what I mean. Saying that you'll vote for a bill if certain changes are made, and then when those changes are made still not voting for the bill is telling him to go fuck himself. There are certainly legitimate reasons to oppose the bill or parts of the bill, and of course any major legislation should be scrutinized. My point was that the Republicans in Congress were not acting honestly and in good faith, not that there weren't any valid criticisms or reasons to oppose.

[mountain bed]

I will say this: I don't always agree with Arlen Specter (obviously), but he did a pretty courageous thing today. At this point it's not like anyone has a safe seat.

 

I was really hoping Dick Lugar would buck the pressure of his colleagues, but it was not to be. I thought there might be a slim chance that his work with Barack in the Senate (nuclear proliferation) might swing him.

[John Smith]

I wills ay that I could nto stomach the way the first half of the TARP funds were being handled. Too many holes, too much unaccoutnability, too much giving away unconditionally (come on now did the banks need to pay dividends with our money?) and right now it looks like the ex wall-street banker is going to continue on with more of the same. Maybe we need a high level economist to run treasury and not someone who is part of the problem to begin with. I'm sure Obama had some pretty high level friend at UofC who would love that gig.

[mfwahl]

Agreement reached. $789 billion.

[ZenLunatic]

Agreement reached. $789 billion.

 

It was to be expected. This government is just like all that has passed. Thinking of short term only.

 

Let's hear the details of the stimulis.

[bleedorange]

I especially liked how Susan Collins got up there and called $789 Billion a "fiscally responsible" number.

[ZenLunatic]

hmmm.... I thought we were in for change?

 

I guess that's politics.

[bobbob1313]

I want to respond to this, but the rebuttal to what you guys are saying is so obvious that I really don't want to say it. Basically, they had no choice. They have to do something. If you guys don't understand how our country works during times of economic turmoil, there's nothing anyone can say.

 

Is this the "right choice"? I don't know. But I do know that everyone in our country is all for the free market until it falls, then we all (except for the 2% of our country that actually listens to Ron Paul) turn to the government to do something. "What are you here for, anyways?" They really don't have a choice.

[Guest Jules]

I want to respond to this, but the rebuttal to what you guys are saying is so obvious that I really don't want to say it. Basically, they had no choice. They have to do something. If you guys don't understand how our country works during times of economic turmoil, there's nothing I can say.

No offense bobs, but if anyone doesn't understand how our country works during these times, it's you. You haven't lived through it. There's a difference.

[bobbob1313]

I'm a history major, so I have a pretty decent grasp of how people have responded throughout history.

 

It would be awesome if we could just let the market naturally play it's cycle. But when people are losing their jobs, they aren't going to be content that "it's just how the market works", and they never have been and they never will be. Politicians have to do something to assuage their fears.

 

Like I said, maybe this isn't the "right" move to increase growth over the long term, but the people who are losing their jobs and savings don't care about the long term potential growth of the economy. They care about being able to put food on the table and pay their bills. Maybe this isn't the way to go about it, but they had to do something.

[ZenLunatic]

I'm a history major, so I have a pretty decent grasp of how people have responded throughout history.

 

It would be awesome if we could just let the market naturally play it's cycle. But when people are losing their jobs, they aren't going to be content that "it's just how the market works", and they never have been and they never will be. Politicians have to do something to assuage their fears.

 

Like I said, maybe this isn't the "right" move to increase growth over the long term, but the people who are losing their jobs and savings don't care about the long term potential growth of the economy. They care about being able to put food on the table and pay their bills. Maybe this isn't the way to go about it, but they had to do something.

 

 

We've been doing the same thing every time and we think it works, its all band aids and our debt just keeps getting bigger. Our debt is the real issue and we ignore it and leave it for another day. Well that day will eventually come and it will be alot worse the longer we wait and the bigger the debt gets. The sooner we start really dealing with the problem, the sooner we get back to a real economy.

[JUDE]

I understand the need for government to do something; my problem is how is this really going to work in practice.

 

The original funds were allocated in order to get banks lending again in order to push available capital for business to operate. Unfortunately that wasn

[bobbob1313]

Honestly, my view on this isn't from the economic standpoint as much as the cultural and social, so what would be the exact consequences of our debt. This is what I can't wrap my head around. Obviously, the idea of national debt doesn't work in the same way as personal debt, but what is this "worst case scenario" if we continue down this path? I always hear warnings of dire circumstances, but the idea of predicting what the economy is going to do and predicting the future of financials is such a crapshoot that I really don't see how anyone can know, as so many economists think.

 

JUDE, from what I understand, this spending bill is supposed to directly create jobs, not capital.

[JUDE]

JUDE, from what I understand, this spending bill is supposed to directly create jobs, not capital.

 

All of it?

 

How?

[Guest Jules]

Unless this package causes people to want to buy more cars and trucks and heavy equipment, it can go fuck itself.

[bobbob1313]

All of it?

 

How?

 

I saw a breakdown of it the other day, and it was mostly public works. Roads, infrastructure, rebuilding the national mall, stuff like that. There were some democratic pet projects (Readying the country for national health care at a cost of like 1.4 billion was the big one, I think), but I think it is designed to get jobs created in the public sector.

[Guest Jules]

I liked McCain's plan.

[bobbob1313]

Dinner at 4, asleep before Jeopardy?

[ZenLunatic]

Honestly, my view on this isn't from the economic standpoint as much as the cultural and social, so what would be the exact consequences of our debt. This is what I can't wrap my head around. Obviously, the idea of national debt doesn't work in the same way as personal debt, but what is this "worst case scenario" if we continue down this path? I always hear warnings of dire circumstances, but the idea of predicting what the economy is going to do and predicting the future of financials is such a crapshoot that I really don't see how anyone can know, as so many economists think.

 

JUDE, from what I understand, this spending bill is supposed to directly create jobs, not capital.

 

Just like most, its all about a political viewpoint which is not economically viable.

 

Right now, we borrow hundreds of billions from other countries to fund our stimulis and and spending just like a credit card. We need to come up with that 800 billion stimulis now from somewhere. We will ask other countries first, even if we can con the money from them again, this cant go on forever. If we cant get money from other countries, we will print the money. Considering the size of our spending, this will cause hyper inflation causeing our dollar to completely be worthless.

 

It is fundelmentals that we lack. We cant keep living on borrowed money. It will end just like all pyramid schemes end.

[bobbob1313]

So, we're going to be seeing a Mad Max like post apocalyptic dystopia? Doesn't every country on earth with a major economy work under the same ideas as us? And didn't Japan in the 80's and 90's try to become a self sustaining, internally turned economy only to see stagflation and an abrupt end to their progression as one of the world's premiere economic powers?

[ZenLunatic]

I saw a breakdown of it the other day, and it was mostly public works. Roads, infrastructure, rebuilding the national mall, stuff like that. There were some democratic pet projects (Readying the country for national health care at a cost of like 1.4 billion was the big one, I think), but I think it is designed to get jobs created in the public sector.

 

So what happens once those are all built? We will have better roads and buildings and a bigger debt. What happens to all the jobs when project is done?

 

So we borrowed trillions to keep our country growing but with no plans of paying anything back. How do we pay our debt down, how do we make money?

[bobbob1313]

So what happens once those are all built? We will have better roads and buildings and a bigger debt. What happens to all the jobs when project is done?

 

So we borrowed trillions to keep our country growing but with no plans of paying anything back. How do we pay our debt down, how do we make money?

 

I'm not the one who came up with the plan, but I would assume that they are hoping the economy is back to normal so that the jobs can be created in the private sector once it is built back up (through the spending of those who are paid by the government work plans and the lending by the banks).

 

Of course, like I said, I don't have much more than a basic grasp of economics and I only looked at the deal a little bit, so I could have this all wrong.

[Winston Legthigh]

How do we pay our debt down, how do we make money?

Never a dude like this one! He's got a plan to stick it to The Man!

 

All He Needed Was One Last Deal...

[mfwahl]

Never a dude like this one! He's got a plan to stick it to The Man!

 

All He Needed Was One Last Deal...

[ZenLunatic]

I'm not the one who came up with the plan, but I would assume that they are hoping the economy is back to normal so that the jobs can be created in the private sector once it is built back up (through the spending of those who are paid by the government work plans and the lending by the banks).

 

Of course, like I said, I don't have much more than a basic grasp of economics and I only looked at the deal a little bit, so I could have this all wrong.

 

I'm not blaming you, but trying to show you the bigger picture instead of just a temporary fix.