stooka Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Well that's kind of my point. That sort of acrobatic playing is on display at just about every Guitar Center nationwide. Not to mention YouTube clips. Without the stage that was set by Vai's success, I doubt people would have paid it much mind. 1987? I doubt these guitarists were a dimebag-a-dozen back then, but I wasn't on the player's scene. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 1987? I doubt these guitarists were a dimebag-a-dozen back then, but I wasn't on the player's scene. yeah... regardless of your thoughts, these guys were def the cream of the crop back then... Vai, Satch, Eric Johnson, Paul Gilbert, etc. (i never liked Yngwie and didn't know anyone who did... thought he was a joke even back then) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 yeah... regardless of your thoughts, these guys were def the cream of the crop back then... Vai, Satch, Eric Johnson, Paul Gilbert, etc. (i never liked Yngwie and didn't know anyone who did... thought he was a joke even back then)Meh, for insane chops back then, I went for Steve Morse and the Dixie Dregs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stooka Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Steve Morse and the Dixie Dregs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 alright... i didn't really hear it listening to them seperately, but here they are layered on top of each other: definitely sounds like some melody borrowing going on in spots, but it's not even close to a flat out copy or warranting of a lawsuit... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artifice Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 i'll be the first to say it. U2 and Radiohead should join Satch in a class action suit. And Sonic Youth should muscle in and sue U2 for Vertigo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Battle of two of the most boring musical entities of their time. And Sonic Youth should muscle in and sue U2 for Vertigo. Why would anyone want to to be associated with that piece of crap? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 alright... i didn't really hear it listening to them seperately, but here they are layered on top of each other: definitely sounds like some melody borrowing going on in spots, but it's not even close to a flat out copy or warranting of a lawsuit... Wow.. There is definitely a striking resemblance.. Definitely not a copy though, but it's obvious Coldplay was "influenced" by that song. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Zappa hired him as "stunt guitar" and I think that pretty much sums up my feelings about him.Besides, Ralph Macchio totally crane-kicked him in the face in Crossroads. Back to Zappa - there's a great vid of Stevie's Spanking (on dub room special, iirc). Vai wanks a solo for a while, then Zappa comes in and takes it away handily. Puts eyebrows on it, as it were. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Wow.. There is definitely a striking resemblance.. Definitely not a copy though, but it's obvious Coldplay was "influenced" by that song.yeah... i'd say this will end up more like the Flaming Lips/Cat Stevens deal... which was pretty obvious, if unintentional Besides, Ralph Macchio totally crane-kicked him in the face in Crossroads. f'n love that movie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Artifice Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Why would anyone want to to be associated with that piece of crap? It wasn't crap when it was called Dirty Boots. Then U2 got hold of it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Perhaps. But I was a fledgling guitarist in the mid-'80s and I vividly recall Satriani first coming into the public eye due to being Vai's teacher. Of that there is no doubt in my mind. It was guitar magazines that sort of outed him. I was in high school and played in a band around the time of Surfing With the Alien. We covered a couple Satriani tunes (the lamest ones). None of the guys in the band listened to David Lee Roth. We'd seen his videos and we knew about the Vai connection, but I don't think any of us would have thought then, or think today, that Satriani owes his career or even his early recording contract to the fact that he had ties to Vai. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Well that's kind of my point. That sort of acrobatic playing is on display at just about every Guitar Center nationwide. Not to mention YouTube clips (search "amazing guitar" or "fastest guitar solo" and see how many you find). Without the stage that was set by Vai's success, I doubt people would have paid it much mind. What? Let's not firget this dude: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What? Let's not firget this dude:Is that EVH? Yikes! To be clear, I was saying Satriani would not have been noticed without the attention paid to Vai (and Vai's subsequent lauding of his teacher), not that David Lee Roth wouldn't have been noticed. Hell I saw the "1984" tour! Jump! (Jump!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Is that EVH? Yikes! To be clear, I was saying Satriani would not have been noticed without the attention paid to Vai (and Vai's subsequent lauding of his teacher), not that David Lee Roth wouldn't have been noticed. Hell I saw the "1984" tour! Jump! (Jump!) Yeah, that's EVH. I don't agree with you about the Satriani thing, but maybe I was reading Guitar World while you were reading Guitar for the Practicing Musician. You may be right. I'd say those guys both benefitted from their mutual association. I recall the praise and name dropping coming from both of those guys back in the '80s. A lot of ink was spent on those two in the guitar mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Yeah, that's EVH. I don't agree with you about the Satriani thing, but maybe I was reading Guitar World while you were reading Guitar for the Practicing Musician. You may be right. I'd say those guys both benefitted from their mutual association. I recall the praise and name dropping coming from both of those guys back in the '80s. A lot of ink was spent on those two in the guitar mags.Well it sounds like you were reading them circa '89 or so and I am talking circa '86 or so. ETA: From Wikipedia ("so you know it's true," Michael Scott): When his friend and former student Steve Vai gained fame playing with David Lee Roth in 1986, Vai raved about Satriani in several interviews with guitar magazines. In 1987, Satriani's second album Surfing with the Alien produced popular radio hits and was the first all-instrumental release to chart so highly in many years. In 1988 Satriani helped produce the EP The Eyes of Horror for the death metal band Possessed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I'm still waiting for XTC to sue Beck for turning their 'Another Satellite' into 'Movie Theme' (new link - song starts 1:34 in). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Well it sounds like you were reading them circa '89 or so and I am talking circa '86 or so. ETA: From Wikipedia ("so you know it's true," Michael Scott): When his friend and former student Steve Vai gained fame playing with David Lee Roth in 1986, Vai raved about Satriani in several interviews with guitar magazines. In 1987, Satriani's second album Surfing with the Alien produced popular radio hits and was the first all-instrumental release to chart so highly in many years. In 1988 Satriani helped produce the EP The Eyes of Horror for the death metal band Possessed. Satriani's first album came out in '86, so his recording career was alreay in motion before Vai became a hot commodity. There's no reason to believe he wouldn't have made the same second album, Vai or no Vai. I don't know how a guitar magazine interview translates to pop chart success, but I'll conceed that Vai's praise helped Satriani's career to some extent. It's definitely overstating it, though, to say that Satriani would have been nothing more than a no-name guitar shop show-off if it hadn't been for Vai. Maybe I misread your original post, but that's what it seemed like you were saying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Satriani's first album came out in '86, so his recording career was alreay in motion before Vai became a hot commodity. There's no reason to believe he wouldn't have made the same second album, Vai or no Vai. I don't know how a guitar magazine interview translates to pop chart success, but I'll conceed that Vai's praise helped Satriani's career to some extent. It's definitely overstating it, though, to say that Satriani would have been nothing more than a no-name guitar shop show-off if it hadn't been for Vai. Maybe I misread your original post, but that's what it seemed like you were saying.Well that's a little more than I intended to say. He was respected among his peers for sure as having amazing chops and, I believe through Vai's praise, picked up some other notable students. But his first album was released on the brand new Relativity records and I don't believe it had much of a first pressing. He was almost totally unknown in the mainstream, even if you call hardcore guitar magazine-reading geeks "mainstream." I'm sure he would have continued to record and teach had Vai not A) achieved mainstream success and, B ) gave Satriani props whenever he was interviewed (this was not just some one-off menition; Vai was considered the technical master at this time and constantly gave Satriani props when interviewed). I'm saying that those factors allowed Satriani to rise higher than he would have and achieve mainstream success. That short period in the '80s saw a fascination with this sort of technical guitar wizardry in the mainstream which also helped Satriani ride that wave (no pun intended). But I don't think he would have been in any position to ride that wave without help from Vai. (by the way, I recorded an album for a small label in '80s too and I suck.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Moe, if you can play Trey's licks you definitely do NOT suck. I won't comment on Satch or Vai, but I did/do think Eric Johnson is pretty fucking good. His first few LPs, anyway - I sorta lost track after that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Moe, if you can play Trey's licks you definitely do NOT suck.Well I can't play nearly as many of them as used to. But that's kind of my point about Satriani. I don't measure musical talent in finger gymnastics. Anyone can spend hours and hours practicing and get the finger gymnastics down. That sort of feat can be impressive for a short time, but it loses its appeal quickly without something else behind it. That's why I will always separate talent from technical prowess. Now don't get me wrong, Satriani has some talent. Certainly more than me; certainly more than most Guitar Center geeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markosis Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 My take: The Satriani song is by no means any kind of stretch of imagination regarding harmony or melody. Its pretty standard stuff. Its entirely possible for somebody else to stumble upon that combination of chords/melody because its very rudimentary. I could see if someone came out with something that was so close to, say, a Thelonious Monk or Ornette Coleman composition, there would be no question it was a ripoff because with those artists there was an expansion of harmony at work in their music; it took a little more than an exercise in major scales, which, at face value, is pretty much what the Coldplay and Satriani songs are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stooka Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Calexico Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 How bad is it that I prefer Coldplay over that Satriani dude? And Coldplay are shite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I'm still waiting for XTC to sue Beck for turning their 'Another Satellite' into 'Movie Theme' (new link - song starts 1:34 in). I am still waiting for almost every musician in the world to sue Ryan Adams. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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