Guest Speed Racer Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Something about guitars and drums and hours and years of practicing and gigging to get that alchemy. You're right. DJing, live mixing, beat-boxing and operating/programming/executing(/insert verb here) drum machines is ridiculously easy (especially back in the analog days, when that shit was a cake walk!). And of course, none of those groups ever practiced! Surely all of them are void of alchemy. I don't see how five people doing all of the above together disqualifies them as being a band. Disqualifies them as a rock band (as your quote would suggest)? Absolutely. As an American band? I think they qualify. Calling them vocal groups lumps them in with a legion of other just-vocalist pop outfits (NKOTB, Spice Girls, etc.) that, to me, is a slight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 "Assholes"?As of January things have been improving. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Since there is not one Bob Dylan but many, and they sometimes inhabit the same song, can we call Dylan a band? I vote yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 You're right. DJing, live mixing, beat-boxing and operating/programming/executing(/insert verb here) drum machines is ridiculously easy (especially back in the analog days, when that shit was a cake walk!). And of course, none of those groups ever practiced! Surely all of them are void of alchemy. All of the above used to be an art. But it's been defiled recently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 All of the above used to be an art. Say, back when the Beastie Boys and Public Enemy were at their peaks? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PopTodd Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 You're right. DJing, live mixing, beat-boxing and operating/programming/executing(/insert verb here) drum machines is ridiculously easy (especially back in the analog days, when that shit was a cake walk!). And of course, none of those groups ever practiced! Surely all of them are void of alchemy. I don't see how five people doing all of the above together disqualifies them as being a band. Disqualifies them as a rock band (as your quote would suggest)? Absolutely. As an American band? I think they qualify. Calling them vocal groups lumps them in with a legion of other just-vocalist pop outfits (NKOTB, Spice Girls, etc.) that, to me, is a slight. It also lumps them in with Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, The Supremes, The Temptations, The Everly Brothers, The Four Seasons, and others that would be a pretty damn large compliment.Also, you can lump the "Bands" in with Poison, The Shaggs, etc. So I'm insulting the "bands" by calling them such, huh? Just depends how you look at it... there are brilliant and horrendous examples of both. Take a breath, my friend, and look at YOUR big picture, from a different angle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmacomber68w Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 No particular order... WilcoThe ReplacementsTalking HeadsPearl JamAllman BrosDead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Just depends how you look at it... there are brilliant and horrendous examples of both. Take a breath, my friend, and look at YOUR big picture, from a different angle. I think a band would be a group of musicians that writes and creates their own songs and are largely responsible for their own creative direction. So there's MY big picture. A vocal group, to me, is a group that uses the voice as the primary instrumentation, but usually relies on a group of songs they may not have written, following a creative direction that may not be their own (see Menudo, Spice Girls), maybe adding some instrumentation of their own, but not as the primary means of 'background music' to the vocals. And absolutley I would include the Beach Boys as a band. Are there exceptions? Absolutely yes. I'd say the Monkees qualify as a band even though they didn't have complete control over their creative direction. Poision and The Shaggs are definitely bands. Are they good bands? I'd say The Shaggs had more control over their own creative direction than Poison, but both are bands. Are they good bands? Well, if they appear in this thread then yes, perhaps. I don't know, I just think it's kind of asinine that the Beastie Boys and Public Enemy wouldn't make it into an All Time Best American Bands list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Beastie Boys and Public Enemy how do they define themselves? Do they use the word "band" in describing their music? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 WilcoTalking HeadsThe Flaming LipsMy Morning JacketR.E.M.Weird Al Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stooka Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The Grateful DeadTom Petty & The HeartbreakersZZ TopThe RamonesBruce Springsteen & The E Street BandThe Beach BoysSly & The Family StoneThe Talking HeadsKissAerosmithWilcoMetallicaThe White StripesThe TemptationsThe Allman Brothers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpolak21 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The Velvet UndergroundTalking HeadsR.E.M.Yo La TengoSonic YouthThe Beach BoysThe ByrdsEelsWilcoBig StarBuffalo SpringfieldLoveSparklehorseCalifone --Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GtrPlyr Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The ReplacementsBig StarSly & The Family StoneFunkadelicParliamentXR.E.M.Cheap TrickMinutemenMission to BurmaCCRWilcoDrive-By TruckersTalking HeadsThe Beach BoysLovePavementTelevisionThe Hold SteadyThe Magnetic FieldsThe MillenniumLynyrd SkynyrdSleater-KinneyThe RamonesNew York Dolls Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 A few that I don't think I saw: The Raspberries, Cheap Trick, The Sonics, The Stooges, Black Flag, NY Dolls and lastly, Fugazi, who I think socially and politically are the most important U.S. band of the past 20 years bar none. Also, to me it's a no brainer that The E Street Band are a band. That core has been together for close to 35 years, give or take a sabbatical. CCR are probably the best. KISS ('74-'80) are probably my favorite. There are lots of soul or funk groups that I'm thinking of that we're dominated by one personality and that probably disqualifies them but at the top of that list for me would be Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions and Sly and the Family Stone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The ByrdsJefferson AirplaneTalking HeadsREMXButthole SurfersSonic YouthCCRSleepThe MetersThe MelvinsGuided By VoicesCaptain Beefheart and his Magic BandThinking Fellers Union Local 282Sun City GirlsBlue Oyster CultThe StoogesDevoCome Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The Band Not entirely American, but they certainly project the American ethos better than any group had or has ever done, or ever will do. That's what I think of when this question is posited.No.No. No. No.Your country has many legendary bands... leave The Band alone. Besides one member, they were a Canadian band playing North American music. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
howdjadoo Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 One of America's greatest, most influential, and legendary cult bands, the Flamin' Groovies came out of the San Francisco area in 1965 playing greasy, bluesy, rock & roll dashed with a liberal sprinkling of British Invasion panache, in an era soon to be dominated by hippie culture and hyperextended raga-rock freakouts. Caught in a double bind of playing the wrong kind of music at the wrong time (as well as not looking the part), the Groovies were almost completely forgotten as the Fillmore/Avalon Ballroom scenes, dominated by the Dead, the Jefferson Airplane, et al., rendered them anachronistic. The plain truth, however, was that despite not being in tune with the zeitgeist, the Groovies made great music, and managed to sustain a career that lasted for over two decades. What made the Groovies such a formidable band was the double dynamite supplied by guitarist Cyril Jordan and singer/wildman Roy A. Loney. Together they formed an uneasy partnership that guided the band through its most fertile period, from 1968-1971. In 1968, for next to nothing, the band recorded a seven-song EP entitled Sneakers. This little bit of DIY ingenuity resulted in a contract with Epic and the huge sum of 80,000 dollars (1968 dollars, mind you) to be spent on their debut recording, Supersnazz. It was a great album that didn't sell, but did get them dropped from Epic. Quickly signing with Kama Sutra, the Groovies closed the '60s and started the '70s with two terrific records (Flamingo and Teenage Head), but public apathy and the increasingly tempestuous relationship between Jordan and Loney led to the latter's departure for a solo career in 1971. Jordan, now free to run the band as a "benevolent" dictator and indulge his passion for a more folk-rock (read: Byrds) focus, hired guitarist/vocalist Chris Wilson, curiously added the apostrophe to their first name, and in 1972 moved the band to England. Oddly enough, the Groovies had a larger, more enthusiastic following in Europe (especially in England and Germany) than they did in the States, and it seemed perfectly reasonable to assume that if great rewards were to be reaped, it would happen in Europe first. Hooking up with Dave Edmunds, who was keen to produce them, Jordan and company recorded a handful of songs as early as 1972. However, this seemingly natural collaboration yielded little until 1976, when the Groovies released their finest post-Loney effort, Shake Some Action. Loaded with ringing guitars, great covers, and Edmunds' spongy, bass-heavy production, Shake Some Action became a well-received album in punk-era Britain, as was the fine follow-up, Flamin' Groovies Now. This new notoriety brought renewed interest in the Groovies in America, but the string of good albums ended abruptly with the mostly covers and mostly forgettable Jumpin' in the Night, in 1979. Clearly, the band had run out of gas. That fact, however, did little to convince Cyril Jordan that the Flamin' Groovies in any form were no longer viable. So, after five or six years of no new music — there were instead countless repackagings, anthologies, and lousy bootlegs — the band ended up in Australia, now reduced to Jordan and a bunch of unknowns (with the exception of longtime bassist George Alexander), shamelessly covering '60s material and living off the band's legend. It should be noted that after his departure in 1971, Roy Loney, after a couple of music industry jobs, made some wonderful records with his band the Phantom Movers (with ex-Groovies drummer Danny Mihm). Loney occasionally worked behind the counter at Jack's Record Cellar in San Francisco, and recorded with the Young Fresh Fellows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryann7739 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 neither Yo La Tengo or Phish have been mentioned. So them. Both have been around 20+ years and have put out solid music for 20+ years Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 neither Yo La Tengo or Phish have been mentioned. So them. Both have been around 20+ years and have put out solid music for 20+ years mpolak saved this thread and mentioned YLT. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 all-time, best US bands for me are: replacementsuncle tupelowilcohusker duminutemenafghan whigsramonesREMsonic youthdrive-by truckerspixiessoul asylum and too early to say if they belong up there, but really love 'em: lucerotv on the radiobon iver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Littlebear Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The Velvet Underground Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The Beach BoysBig Busted Barry & The Bum-Bum BoysFruity Goes M' WalkmanEco & His Lucky HenTwist, Clout & Shout It OutThe Banana SplitsMoby GrapeSir Tanlinot & The Go-on-then Bros.Rocket From The Crypt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 how do they (Public Enemy & Beastie Boys) define themselves? Do they use the word "band" in describing their music? I think they would. Speed Racer - you took my comment as flippant. But I was being serious - I don't think it's any less impressive to create great hip-hop than it is to create great rock or soul music. But PopTodd hit the nail on the head - you wouldn't call The Temptations one of the greatest bands ever. There's just something about the word band that implies geetars and booze and shit. Why don't we rename this thread "All Time Best Popular Music Acts From The United States" and be done with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 There's just something about the word band that implies geetars and booze and shit. Well, the Beastie Boys meet all of those criteria, and Public Enemy meet two out of three. I did take your comment as flippant - sorry for that - but to me, without specifying a genre, a band is a group responsible for its own instrumentation, etc. I mean, it's not rocket science, nor is it particularly nitpicky. I still think that comparing the Beastie Boys or Public Enemy to a straight-up vocal group is way off[*]. Call it the All Time Best American (and Canadian, if they're really good) Rock Bands thread, or the All Time American whatever it is you suggested thread... Quick edit:Why don't we rename this thread "All Time Best Popular Music Acts From The United States" and be done with it. Nevermind - the heading you provide suggests that acts like N*Sync and the Backstreet Boys would be fair game for the list. The Beastie Boys' musicality has a "band-ness" much more closely related to Wilco than vocal-pop musical acts. I think it is possible to have a discussion about American bands that includes hip-hop and pop acts - "musical acts" opens it up to the legions of manufactured and purely-vocal performers that lack the writing, creating and performing chops of other self-propelled acts. And this edit IS me being nitpicky. [*]Unless the Temptations performed their own instruments, which I doubt, and lack the interest to confirm - but if they did, then they're a band too. A pop band. So just specify a genre. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ron, Tony, Herbie, Wayne & Miles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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