Dude Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Purchased a Pixies ticket for one of the Aragon Ballroom shows this morning. Here's how the fees broke down for a single GA ticket: Ticket Price - US $44.75Facility Charge - US $2.75Convenience Charge - US $7.50Additional Taxes - US $0.38SUBTOTAL US - $55.38 Tickets/Items US $55.38 Order Processing Fee - US $5.60TicketFast Delivery - US $2.50 TOTAL CHARGES - US $63.48 That's $18.35 in fees for a $44.75 ticket. That's nearly half the ticket price in fees. Ticketmaster's monopoly has annoyed the hell out of me over the years, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here. God knows many people both in and out of the court system have tried and failed over the years to break it up or regulate a monopoly that is both outrageously costly and offers no real value. Alternate ticket venues do exist, i.e. Brown Paper Tickets, but of course, in order for artists to sell tickets through the alternate services, they have to play at venues that haven't signed the exclusive deals with Ticketmaster. And the vast majority of venues have exclusive deals with Ticketmaster and Livenation. I'm essentially paying Ticketmaster $18.35 for the privilege of using their fantastic website and having them e-mail me a PDF of the ticket and for spamming the hell out of my e-mail box. And it's 18.35 spent on a ticket service with notoriously shitty customer service and that routinely allows scalpers and corporate entities to snatch up tickets before the consumers, and who now engages in outrageous ticket-scalping practices itself via a TicketsNow site. I have no doubt in my mind a band like Wilco would use Brown Paper Tickets every single time if they could, as they both have a 99¢ + 2.5% low rate of service fees, plus I've seen them offer to donate a portion of proceeds to social and environmental causes. Of course, Wilco has no control over the exclusive venue contracts. Pearl Jam learned this the hard way when they sued Ticketmaster in the '90s. Maybe if Congress passed some Consumer Protection Act in relation to tickets, that would offer some reprieve, but Ticketmaster's got a substantial stable of lobbyists and lawyers to protect its monopoly. It pains me to wonder how many elected officials and federal judges have received free tickets in the mail to events over the years as a bribe to keep this monopoly going. What recourse do consumers have? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
remphish1 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I gotcha beat...at least percentage wise. My $5 for Pet Shop Boys came out to $14.10 after fees... that is 182% in fees! The only recourse we have is to try and buy from the venues box office, don't go to the show or hope to score a deal on ebay. I loathe ticketmaster but it is a necessary evil if you are a concert goer who likes any form of popular music...I understand your frustration completley. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Yep, my recent Pixies tickets were $50 each but ended up being $62 each with fees. At least I can vent here because there is not much else you can do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Thats why I love going to small venue concerts. Like The Orange Peel in Asheville.. Yeah, you'll probably never see the Pixies there, but you will see pretty well known acts like Dr. Dog, Band of Horses, (heck even the Beastie Boys played there a few months ago). They use small ticket agencies like Ticketweb where the fees are very small (usually around $2.50) I've actually missed seeing some of my favorite bands play simply because I despise large venue's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I've actually missed seeing some of my favorite bands play simply because I despise large venue's. I don't know what your definition of large is, but the Aragon is relatively cozy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dude Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Obama's administration may block the Ticketmaster / Live Nation merger. One more reason he's The One: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1903447-1,00.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Thats why I love going to small venue concerts. Like The Orange Peel in Asheville.. Yeah, you'll probably never see the Pixies there, but you will see pretty well known acts like Dr. Dog, Band of Horses, (heck even the Beastie Boys played there a few months ago). They use small ticket agencies like Ticketweb where the fees are very small (usually around $2.50) I've actually missed seeing some of my favorite bands play simply because I despise large venue's. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. It's one of the advantages of having relatively non mainstream tastes. 99% of the concerts I go to are at small clubs where I can walk right up front or wherever I want. As much as I love Red Rocks, I still prefer the clubs any day of the week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I don't know what your definition of large is, but the Aragon is relatively cozy. Pretty much arena's, pavilions/amphitheaters.. Typically the venue's that use ticketmaster. For example; I'm a Coldplay fan, but I'll never go see them (unless I won tickets or something). They have the nerve to charge $100+ a pop, and they play the big arena's where the sound is horrible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My understanding from discussions on Sound Opinions is that a lot of the artists and venues are getting portions of those various charges--which is why most don't fight it. Some artists also cooperate with Ticketmaster/LiveNation to scalp tickets via their premium/auction services or whatever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lamradio Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My understanding from discussions on Sound Opinions is that a lot of the artists and venues are getting portions of those various charges--which is why most don't fight it. Some artists also cooperate with Ticketmaster/LiveNation to scalp tickets via their premium/auction services or whatever. This brings me to a question; why do artists like Coldplay charge a fortune for their tickets? Are they really that greedy, or do they have high overhead costs? Maybe those arena's cost an arm and leg to host bands, so a good portion of that $100 ticket price goes to overhead... Or maybe the artists charge that much because they can... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Or maybe the artists charge that much because they can... Yeah, the ticklets sell, so who's going to lower prices? Is there a breaking point? Or will there always be a new crop of "fans" to fill the seats that the likes of you and me refuse to pay for? I remember being slightly shocked that David Bowie tickets for his Sound and Vision tour in 1990 were in the high $20 range ($28 before fees, if I remember correctly). At that point, I had never heard of a concert costing more than $20, or say, $25 after fees. Most arena shows were in the teens or low $20s. After that tour, $20 arena shows practically ceased to exist. Also, the concept of front row seats costing more than the nosebleed section was almost unheard of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dude Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 My understanding from discussions on Sound Opinions is that a lot of the artists and venues are getting portions of those various charges--which is why most don't fight it. Some artists also cooperate with Ticketmaster/LiveNation to scalp tickets via their premium/auction services or whatever. That seems like a case of good cop, bad cop then. The artist wants to charge a higher overall ticket price, but doesn't want to appear greedy. So they charge a lower price and beef up the fees. Ticketmaster knows they will get a majority of the complaints, but the company clearly isn't that concerned with winning any popularity contests with consumers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 why do artists like Coldplay charge a fortune for their tickets? Are they really that greedy, or do they have high overhead costs? The riders posted at www.thesmokinggun.com indicate that a lot of the arena acts tend to travel with a small village. I imagine that has a lot to do with the cost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
suites Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My understanding from discussions on Sound Opinions is that a lot of the artists and venues are getting portions of those various charges--which is why most don't fight it. Some artists also cooperate with Ticketmaster/LiveNation to scalp tickets via their premium/auction services or whatever. I do believe that this is true. Also, if you all remember this all started with the Eagles Reunion Tour when they were the first to really charge more for the premium seats. So blame Don Henley. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My understanding from discussions on Sound Opinions is that a lot of the artists and venues are getting portions of those various charges--which is why most don't fight it. Some artists also cooperate with Ticketmaster/LiveNation to scalp tickets via their premium/auction services or whatever. I saw this story online at various places a while back: Thursday, September 03, 2009Report: Van Halen earned extra 1$ million from scalped tickets Van Halen made an extra one million dollars in the fall of 2007 when as many as 500 of the best seats at around 20 concerts on the band's reunion tour were pulled from Ticketmaster and sold through scalpers, according to a report by the Wall Street Journal. The scalpers reportedly kept about 30 percent of the jacked-up ticket prices for themselves, while the remaining 70 percent was divided between the band, their representatives and Ticketmaster itself. The scam was part of a Ticketmaster initiative, codenamed "Project Showtime," which was designed to get a piece of the action from the scalpers, who often re-sell tickets for hundreds or thousands of dollars more than their face value. The move was part of plan to compete with a new ticketing business started by Live Nation, by offering to share profits from the scalpers with the artists and promoters. Van Halen's 2007-2008 tour, the first with David Lee Roth on the mic in nearly a quarter century, grossed more than $90 million. At each of the 20 shows, the best seats were taken directly out of the Ticketmaster system and passed directly to private dealers and scalpers. The project eventually fell apart, according to the Journal, because of distrust among the participants, although a number of Van Halen tickets were sold through the scalpers. The scam was said to be the brainchild of Van Halen manager Irving Azoff, who also now serves as Ticketmaster's CEO. Azoff is also behind the scheme to merge Ticketmaster with Live Nation, which is under review by the Justice Department. Critics and members of Congress have said that the proposed merger would create a monopoly over almost all aspects of the music business. Ticketmaster came under fire earlier this year from Bruce Springsteen, his manager, and Springsteen's fans when customers attempting to buy Springsteen tickets at the Ticketmaster website were automatically rerouted to StubHub, a high-priced resale site owned by the company. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Interesting history of ticket prices through 2004 in Des Moines here: http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/16060 Clearly we can place the blame of escalated prices on Moody Blues and Cher. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmait Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 >Also, if you all remember this all started with the Eagles Reunion Tour when they were the first to really charge more for the premium seats. That tour was one of the first (if not the first) over $100 ticket. That's a lot now and would have been a lot in 1993 or 94. I just paid TM $102 for two $38 Pavement tickets - a 34% markup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brownie Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 My reaction to the Ticketmaster extortion fees has been to severely cut back on the number of shows I attend. I stopped going to arena shows many years ago because I like a more intimate experience, but even the theater and club shows have gotten out of hand. I didn't make a conscious decision about this until about 6 months ago, when I noticed I'd been going to significantly fewer shows, mainly because I couldn't justify the expense. Not that I'm broke, but I don't see the value for the money when an act I'd like to check out, but isn't necessarily one of my favorites, is topping $70 with all the fees. The recent David Byrne tour springs to mind, as does Neko Case, who I really like, but have put off seeing for several years now because her shows always top $50 with all the fees. Neko is finally playing around here for under $50, so I'll be seeing her in November and am really looking forward to it, but in general I've come to feel over the past couple of years that I wasn't getting good value for my money at live shows. Consequently, the number of shows I attend has drastically decreased. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dude Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 Ticketmaster doesn't just want to monopolize ticket sales, they want to monopolize reselling too, dammit: http://news.digitaltrends.com/news-article/20877/ticketmaster-finds-another-way-to-cut-out-scalpers Of course, this hurts the scalpers, but it also hurts anyone unlucky enough to buy tickets from Ticketmaster who has legitimate reasons they can't attend the show and just wants to sell the tickets for face or give them to a friend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brownie Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Yeah, I've come across this too. That Neko Case show I mentioned in my post above? Ticketless. It's at the Beacon Theater in NY, and any tickets purchased within the first 10 rows are paperless, which means I have to bring my passport with me to collect the tickets! (!!!!) I'm not happy about that, but I guess I do prefer that to the other, seemingly standard situation at that venue where tickets in the first ten rows are never available except on the secondary market, where they cost 10 times what I paid for mine. The chances I won't be able to go are slim. And on the off chance I can't go, I guess I'll have to eat the cost of 2 tickets. I guess that's a risk I'm willing to take when I get to go to a show I'd like to see for a reasonable price. I don't like any of it, to be honest. I don't like having to show government photo ID just to see a show. The alternative (hundreds of dollars for a ticket) is probably worse. I honestly don't know. The whole industry stinks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I saw this story online at various places a while back: This kind of thing doesn't surprise me at all. I hope the extra million, which amounts to chicken feed in the grand scheme of things, was worth it considering there was a huge moat of mooks and soshes between the stage and the real fans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Greed indeed. It would at least be nice if bands set a chunk of tix aside at a student price and one for people who are positively unemployed. It's supposed to be art, for fucks sake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yeah, the ticklets sell, so who's going to lower prices? Is there a breaking point? Or will there always be a new crop of "fans" to fill the seats that the likes of you and me refuse to pay for? I remember being slightly shocked that David Bowie tickets for his Sound and Vision tour in 1990 were in the high $20 range ($28 before fees, if I remember correctly). At that point, I had never heard of a concert costing more than $20, or say, $25 after fees. Most arena shows were in the teens or low $20s. After that tour, $20 arena shows practically ceased to exist. Also, the concept of front row seats costing more than the nosebleed section was almost unheard of.I remember that Sound and Vision tour. I was front row, got Belew's guitar pick. A look at my ticket stub - $27.50 + $2.50 convenience charge. I also remember seeing The Who on their "This is it, we're never gonna be back EVER" tour in '82. $17.50. At the time the most I'd ever paid for a show was around 10 bucks. We thought, "Christ, do these guys think their God or something? 17.50? That's outrageous!!". You can't even park your fucking car for $17.50 now - hell, the service charges are more than that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wendy Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I found some really old ticket stubs from when I lived in LA (and no laughing at who I went to see back then! In 1972 or so I DID see Led Zeppelin, so cut me some slack.) April 3, 1979 - Supertramp at The Forum - $8.75 August 31, 1979 - Sarah Vaughan & LA Philharmonic at the Hollywood Bowl - $7.50 Nov 4, 1979 - Hall & Oates at The Roxy - $10.00 Aug 3, 1980 - Billy Joel at The Forum - $12.50 - 8th row floor! Sep 29, 1980 - Monty Python's Flying Circus at the Hollywood Bowl - (oops, no price on the stub) Edited to add: http://www.gogomag.com/tickets/index.html This is a pretty cool database for identifying old tickets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
watch me fall Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I found some really old ticket stubs from when I lived in LA (and no laughing at who I went to see back then! In 1972 or so I DID see Led Zeppelin, so cut me some slack.) Nov 4, 1979 - Hall & Oates at The Roxy - $10.00 Seriously jealous!! I think the most I've paid for a ticket was REM in 2004, Phillips Arena in Atlanta. $65 (w/o the fees) for nosebleed seats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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