u2roolz Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I would like to see what the AL would look like without the DH in an alternative reality type of way. Picture all of those DH guys finding a defensive job on any team. It would be interesting who would fit where and how many prospects that affects from ever coming up into the big leagues. Not to mention eliminating a lot of those utility guys' jobs around the league. Take a look at Boston, since I'm most familiar with their current particular situation. Would you have let go of Ortiz & Lowell before this season began because you signed Beltre & already had Youkilis? Or would you have Ortiz play 1B and place Youkilis at 3B? Then that probably leads to Beltre signing somewhere else and Lowell too probably. At the end of the day it would look like the Sox would have Ortiz, Youkilis & Bill Hall of all people as your sole utility guy. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I knew I could count on Sir Stewart. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I knew I could count on Sir Stewart. Always, as long as we talk around 1986. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Always, as long as we talk around 1986. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I'm a White Sox fan and hate the DH rule. If the White Sox are not involved in the game, I'd much rather watch a NL game for the sole reason of the pitchers hitting and the managing that is involved in it. Also I not a big fan that a pitcher can throw at someone and not have to worry about being thrown at themselves. I don't think the Player's Union will ever allow the elimination of the DH or at least they will fight it or get some concessions from the owners. I also think players who played mainly DH(like Frank Thomas) belong in the HOF. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It'd be one thing if teams were taking advantage of the DH. However, team's don't seem to realize the value of having someone who can actually, you know, hit, in a position where all they do is hit. The average DH in the AL this year has a .729 OPS. That is lower than the average 1B, 3B, LF, RF, and CF. It's a position that requires one skill, and teams aren't taking advantage of that. That's mind numbingly awful roster management on the part of practically everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 And that OPS would be higher if pitchers were hitting in lieu of the DH? Most DH spots aren't filled by one player. It varies from game to game. These players play in the field some days and sit some days, too. I guess I don't understand when you say that teams don't value/take advantage of the DH just because the OPS numbers are lower than some would expect. How would they be better off taking advantage of their DH spot? Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Always, as long as we talk around 1986. You got it, friend. How would they be better off taking advantage of their DH spot? By using better hitters in their DH spots. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It'd be one thing if teams were taking advantage of the DH. However, team's don't seem to realize the value of having someone who can actually, you know, hit, in a position where all they do is hit. The average DH in the AL this year has a .729 OPS. That is lower than the average 1B, 3B, LF, RF, and CF. It's a position that requires one skill, and teams aren't taking advantage of that. That's mind numbingly awful roster management on the part of practically everyone. Maybe teams are getting it all wrong and thinking the DH position is only there so that player doesn't have to pitch. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It has nothing to do with pitchers vs the DH. Of course the OPS would be lower of they were pitchers, but that's not the point. The fact is, AL teams have a position that only has one skill requirement, and that is to mash the ball. Using the DH spot in the lineup to give a guy like Jorge Posada or Victor Martinez a day off in the field and keep their bat in the lineup is a good usage of the spot, if you don't have a dedicated DH. Those are guys who's bats need to be in the lineup. I understand that teams use guys in the field and in the DH spot, but my argument is that there's no reason for an AL team to not carry a guy who can just mash with no fielding skills. Those guys are readily available in the minors. If you want to use the DH spot 3 times a week to give a guy like Posada a rest from the field, that's fine. But teams are using guys like Ken Griffey, Mark Kotsay, and Eric Chavez as their DHs. That is terrible roster management. The teams getting the worst production out of their DH spots are, generally speaking, the teams with the worst offenses in the AL. This is simple and obvious, I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It has nothing to do with pitchers vs the DH. Of course the OPS would be lower of they were pitchers, but that's not the point. The fact is, AL teams have a position that only has one skill requirement, and that is to mash the ball. Using the DH spot in the lineup to give a guy like Jorge Posada or Victor Martinez a day off in the field and keep their bat in the lineup is a good usage of the spot, if you don't have a dedicated DH. Those are guys who's bats need to be in the lineup. I understand that teams use guys in the field and in the DH spot, but my argument is that there's no reason for an AL team to not carry a guy who can just mash with no fielding skills. Those guys are readily available in the minors. If you want to use the DH spot 3 times a week to give a guy like Posada a rest from the field, that's fine. But teams are using guys like Ken Griffey, Mark Kotsay, and Eric Chavez as their DHs. That is terrible roster management. The teams getting the worst production out of their DH spots are, generally speaking, the teams with the worst offenses in the AL. This is simple and obvious, I think.I agree. Milton Bradley? Andruw Jones? A lot of this ties into contract obligations though, no? I guess the manager/GM point of view is the more uses you can get out of the player the better. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 It has nothing to do with pitchers vs the DH. Of course the OPS would be lower of they were pitchers, but that's not the point. Yeah...that was a joke. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Yeah...that was a joke. I was responding to what Lammy said: "And that OPS would be higher if pitchers were hitting in lieu of the DH?" Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I agree. Milton Bradley? Andruw Jones? A lot of this ties into contract obligations though, no? I guess the manager/GM point of view is the more uses you can get out of the player the better. Well, Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay (to take one team's example) were both minor league contracts that the team opted to take on, weren't they? They weren't saddled by these contracts. Props for taking a risk and seeing if they have anything left, but at some point, you're shooting yourself in the foot by running Mark Kotsay out there 23 times as your DH (And don't even get me started on the 9 games or so that Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel have DHed for them). There are a couple of reasons why the White Sox are 10th in runs scored (I'm looking at you, Gordon Beckham), however, a .664 OPS from the DH spot is a huge part of that. That's a spot of the lineup that simply has to produce, and it's unnacceptable that teams are getting what they are from them. The DH has almost become a spare parts drawer for some teams, and they are getting left behind. It's not Kenny Williams' fault that Mark Kotsay can't hit, but it is his fault for not having a better option. Link to post Share on other sites
captain obvious Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 But teams are using guys like Ken Griffey [...] as their DHs.No, they aren't. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 The White Sox may solve their DH problem by trading for Adam Dunn. They could've signed Jim Thome for the same amount as they signed Kotsay for. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 They could've signed Jim Thome for the same amount as they signed Kotsay for. That kills me. If you're gonna go with an age risk at DH, what on earth would make you think the guy who has never been anything more than an average hitter would be a better bet than one of the best hitters of the past 15 years? If both have at least even odds to suck based on age, wouldn't Thome be a far better option? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 This was part of Guillen's "DH by committee" plan, originally including Vizquel with Kotsay and Jones. Thome sure would have been the better use, though. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Vizquel as a DH has to be one of the more puzzling things I've ever heard. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 If both have at least even odds to suck based on age, wouldn't Thome be a far better option?Would Jermaine Dye swallow his pride & come back on the cheap for the 2nd half? Wouldn't he still be better than what they have DHing right now? Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Utley and Polanco join Ruiz on the DL. I think the Phillies may have caught the Red Sox Disease. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Utley and Polanco join Ruiz on the DL. I think the Phillies may have caught the Red Sox Disease. Bullpen herpes? Seriously though, you can never have too many guys on the DL.... Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Bullpen herpes? Seriously though, you can never have too many guys on the DL....Infield crabs, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 And yet the Red Sox just keep winning. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 And yet the Red Sox just keep winning. True. Only a game back. Link to post Share on other sites
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