*All songs written by Jeff Tweedy

[chriscolbert]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I tried searching and that was a lost cause.

 

So for the second straight album, all credit goes to Jeff with the exception of Pat (three bridges on TWL and one song on WTA). I'm not complaining, I'm just looking for some reasonable discussion on this.

 

Now obviously there has been more writing credit in the past (even if it's just listed as Tweedy/Wilco), so I don't necessarily think that Jeff has turned into some sort of control freak, but the way I see it there are several possible reasons for this:

 

- The other guys aren't bringing in anything because they assume Jeff will always have plenty of songs to fill an album.

- Everyone but Jeff is suffering from massive (4+ years) writer's block.

- They are okay with Jeff getting all the credit as long as they get to put their own subtle/sonic touch on everything.

- With other members maintaining side projects (Autumn Defense, Nels Cline Singers, etc.), it's understood that Wilco is all Jeff unless he asks for help. That being said, they are more than content to have an important role in executing Jeff's vision for his songs without rocking the boat. (I know this is similar to the first one, but I have a hard time believing that these guys don't have anything to bring to the table.)

 

Has this been addressed in any recent interviews? I mean I do believe that the band are at the top of their game right now (especially live), so I'm just wondering what the dynamic is like when they get together to start working on an album. Ultimately, do they get shot down or not even try?

 

In closing, let me make it clear that in no way does this impact my opinion on the albums. I think TWL is their best effort since at least AGIB if not YHF.

[rockinrob]

The only way I can discuss this is by giving examples.

 

In my band, we mostly play my songs. There are two other guys that write, one rarely, and one somewhat often. My songs have a certain sound, and I write a lot of them, so we have plenty of material. The guy that writes a little usually writes shorter pop songs with an edge that fit in well with mine. He sings them, and so far we play two of his. The other guy writes amazing 8 minute long historical songs with stories about characters that are really touching. They are almost impossible to fit into what we do, but he knows this and is frankly not even really interested in doing his tunes. I have converted/worked out ways for us to do some of them and he likes the way we do it, so we play a few of his tunes. A band has a sound, and writers have styles. Also, the way most writers work is very fast. I write most of my songs in 30 minutes or less. The words, music and melody hit me at the same time, and I usually record a little acoustic demo of me playing the song at that point. There isnt room for major collaboration. Almost all of the songs are transformed when the rest of the guys start putting their parts on, but that doesnt qualify for a writing credit, that is just the process of being in a band and turning a 3 chord folk song into something interesting with 2 guitars, bass and drums.

 

In wilco, every player is creative and really great at several instruments. I am sure if you pointed at Nels and said "make up a cool guitar riff" he would play something awesome. But that doesnt mean jeff can just jump up and throw some lyrics on it and it is a song. It is weird to sing lyrics other people have written, especially if you mostly only play your own tunes, and if you usually do your writing by yourself, it is hard to add something to someone else's riffs. In my experience, if the core of a song isnt formed in a moment of inspiration, but instead by making a cool riff and trying to throw lyrics at it until it sticks, you are thinking too much and it will suck.

 

My point in all of this is that everyone in the band is probably contributing a lot, but it isnt a writing credit if you make up a cool part to go on a song. Songwriting is the melody, lyrics, and chord skeleton. Sprucing that up well is why you get to stay in the band!

[jakobnicholas]

My point in all of this is that everyone in the band is probably contributing a lot, but it isnt a writing credit if you make up a cool part to go on a song.  Songwriting is the melody, lyrics, and chord skeleton.  Sprucing that up well is why you get to stay in the band!

Maybe a tad off topic, but I think it's a bit unfair for band members to not get some writing credit on some songs and some albums. The songs on "Sky Blue Sky" and "Wilco (The Album)" are more straight-forward, so the credit going mostly or all to Jeff Tweedy seems fine.But, to me, what makes "The Whole Love" so enjoyable (and more enjoyable than the previous 2 records) is the numerous flourishes and contributions by everybody in the band...John's great bass lines, Glenn's incredible drumming, the keyboard sounds, the synthesizers, strings, blips...etc."The Whole Love" would have been a good candidate for "Lyrics by Jeff Tweedy, music by Tweedy and Wilco" on most if not all songs. "I Might" has so many cool things going that it seems unfair to give all credit to Tweedy. Same with "Art Of Almost". The strings on "Black Moon" make the song. "Red Rising Lung" would be nothing special without all the interesting sounds going on. I think of a song like "At Least That's What You Said", and one of the things that makes me want to listen to it again and again is the drum explosions by Glenn. Does that deserve a writing credit? Probably not. But it seems he should get credit for the music...his contribution helps make the song so good. Or a song like "Hotel Arizona". That song is a stunner for me because of the guitar jam at then end. Did Tweedy do all that? Or maybe it was Jay Bennett...I don't know. "Poor Places" is hauntingly great. My favorite YHF track. I believe Bennett DOES get writing credit for all the things he contributed on that.I always liked how R.E.M. did it. All songs said "Music by R.E.M.".

[choo-choo-charlie]

I think Bennett received writing credits because he actually co-wrote much of those songs with Jeff -- not because of any embellishments or production work.

[Bart]

My understaning is that the credit line "Songs by xxxxx" refered to the guy who wrote the lyrics. I took the liner notes in TWL to mean that Pat helped come up with the words for the bridges, and that all of them helped come up with the music for all the songs.

[chriscolbert]

My understaning is that the credit line "Songs by xxxxx" refered to the guy who wrote the lyrics. I took the liner notes in TWL to mean that Pat helped come up with the words for the bridges, and that all of them helped come up with the music for all the songs.

 

 

I'm okay with that, although it seems that they used to do it differently. I've never understood the big deal of just crediting the band especially with all the unique sounds that everyone contributes. I think Jeff is one of the most genuine and endearing figures in the music industry today and I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would insist on his name being the only one credited. I'm not saying that's the case either but at some point it has to be decided how things are going to be listed in the credits and I'm assuming it's more of the other guys not caring than it is Jeff pushing for it. Although Pat being credited leaves me scratching my head thinking "so the rest of the guys did NOTHING?".

[Guest Speed Racer]

I don't think that anyone now or in the future is going to hear Born Alone and think, "Damn! That Jeff Tweedy wrote a killer bass line to that song!" but I think they're going to know that he came up with the basic chord structure and that Wilco turned it into whtat is it. They had their own "flourishes and contributions" to Sometimes it Happens, but they don't list it as Thompson/Wilco. No one does that with any cover song, regardless of how much they change it. Jeff writes the song, Wilco makes it what it is. I'm thinking Jeff takes the credit when he brings them a song that exists with or without them. We know they made it a Wilco song because it's on a Wilco album.

[Thats Me Beefing]

Same here I play drums in a band and I also play some guitar and piano in my spare time...I write songs occassionally but I know the lead guitarist/singer is just miles above me in songwriting skills and I can appreciate it. So he brings a song in....me and the bassist contribute to structure, vocal harmonies etc. Or maybe we'll chime in with something like hey it would be cool if we got real quiet right here and went from the A minor to the G or whatever. But the song he brought in was pretty much already a song. I would imagine its similiar in Wilco but who knows.

[Autumnteeth]

I remember reading somewhere that Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe songwriting credit cost Michael Stipe somewhere in the neighborhood of $45,000,000, after accounting for songs the other guys actually wrote. I also heard a joke that ended with he gave Stirrat credit for It's Just That Simple so he wouldn't be embarrased. I stopped thinking about this a while ago, but there is a sense that especially early on that everyone but Jeff was the house band. Listening to this album, though, it truly seems like a collaborative effort.

[chriscolbert]

I remember reading somewhere that Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe songwriting credit cost Michael Stipe somewhere in the neighborhood of $45,000,000, after accounting for songs the other guys actually wrote. I also heard a joke that ended with he gave Stirrat credit for It's Just That Simple so he wouldn't be embarrased. I stopped thinking about this a while ago, but there is a sense that especially early on that everyone but Jeff was the house band. Listening to this album, though, it truly seems like a collaborative effort.

 

That might be the most peculiar part as to why I brought it up. You would think that the longer this lineup is together they would get more credit, not less.

[dtram]

I remember reading somewhere that Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe songwriting credit cost Michael Stipe somewhere in the neighborhood of $45,000,000, after accounting for songs the other guys actually wrote.

 

$45 million sounds a little high but to be fair, he has been quoted many times that he would've been nothing without the other 3. Now while that may be a little bit of false modesty, thats one of the things I always loved about rem, their total awareness of what did in other bands and that one of the main things was song writing credit and deciding to split it 4 ways then 3. And at the end of the day, that was the fair way to do it.

 

While, as has been stated above, the song is the chord structure and the melody and the rest is arranging, in a case like wilco, it has surprised me that Jeff wasn't a little more liberal with splitting the song writing credit. I always thought it was interesting that BT was an all songs by JT. While I guess by the letter of ascap/bmi they were, it has always been clear to me that Jay took those songs to places they wouldn't have gone otherwise. I remember when ST came out, being impressed that it was credited all songs written produced performed by wilco and surprised that didn't last.

 

 

[Bart]

I think Jeff is one of the most genuine and endearing figures in the music industry today and I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would insist on his name being the only one credited.

 

Maybe it wasn't Jeff. Maybe Tony M insisted on it. I have no clue on the inner working of it all, but it's probably safe to assume that Tony has cart hooked up to the Tweedy horse and while he's concerned about the others and the band as a whole, all of them can come and go except for Jeff. That sounds harsh but that's life in the world of business.

 

Just one person's very uninformed speculation.

[Scott Gyrrr]

Song writing credits usually just mean the lyrics.

[dtram]

Song writing credits usually just mean the lyrics.

 

No, it's music and lyrics.

[hwllo]

I think the bottom line is, it doesn't matter, that's just how it goes.

 

The Beatles songwriting credits don't say the entire band, same with the Rolling stones and probaby 99% of bands out there.

 

It's just just a formality, people who listen to wilco know the band is more than just Tweedy, but technically they are Jeff's songs so that's just the way it goes

[Bart]

I think the bottom line is, it doesn't matter, that's just how it goes.

 

It's just just a formality, people who listen to wilco know the band is more than just Tweedy, but technically they are Jeff's songs so that's just the way it goes

 

Well, it does sort of matter since the person with the song writing credit is the one who gets paid.

[rockinrob]

I read either an article or a book on publishing royalties (paid to the songwriter) and it mentioned wilco in it. The band members split 15% or 20% of the royalties for songs they played on, a very unusual arrangement. Usually all of the mechanical royalties would go to the songwriter, resulting in sometimes dramatic income disparity between him or her and the band.

[Autumnteeth]

 

Maybe it wasn't Jeff. Maybe Tony M insisted on it. I have no clue on the inner working of it all, but it's probably safe to assume that Tony has cart hooked up to the Tweedy horse and while he's concerned about the others and the band as a whole, all of them can come and go except for Jeff. That sounds harsh but that's life in the world of business.

 

Just one person's very uninformed speculation.

 

Uninformed maybe, but exactly what I was thinking.

[GtrPlyr]

I remember reading somewhere that Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe songwriting credit cost Michael Stipe somewhere in the neighborhood of $45,000,000, after accounting for songs the other guys actually wrote.

 

My understanding of how REM worked is that the band--Buck, Mills (and Berry)--came up with the music and Stipe came up with the lyrics and melody. As far as I know Stipe never wrote both the music & lyrics for any of their songs so he wouldn't deserve sole credit on anything they did.

[moxiebean]

My understanding of how REM worked is that the band--Buck, Mills (and Berry)--came up with the music and Stipe came up with the lyrics and melody. As far as I know Stipe never wrote both the music & lyrics for any of their songs so he wouldn't deserve sole credit on anything they did.

...although not all REM lyrics were written by Stipe - for example, Mills wrote (Don't Go Back to) Rockville, and Berry wrote Driver 8 and Everybody Hurts.

[barnyard pimp]

Berry wrote the music for Everybody Hurts but lyrics are definitely Michael's - the band was prepared to abandon the song before Michael started humming a melody to himself. Doubtful about Driver 8 as well.

 

Michael admitted recently that Mills has had creative input on the lyrics since the beginning.