Captain's Dead: "Jeff start over"

[Vacant Horizon]

i liked SBS and W(TA) to some extent. Haven't pick up TWL. Don't know why, just not interested. Saw them in Atlanta last week. It was okay, but ultimately not worth the time and money. I would have much rather read to my kids and put them to bed. Bull Black Nova was good, as was Side With the Seeds. I'm comparing this to seeing Neil Young last year. I was in a trance the entire time watching him and just hung on every damn note. I would be interested if Jeff did something different. I've listened to Autumn Defense more in the last year than Wilco. I think it just happens, we fall in and out of bands. I recently started listening to the dead again after 5 year break. My new interests are Widespread Panic (sorry) and English Folk Rock a la Fairport and Pentangle.

 

Oh, and if we are comparing Wilco's timeline to the Dead...we're 15 years in. 15 years in with the Dead we got Day Job!

[choo-choo-charlie]

i liked SBS and W(TA) to some extent. Haven't pick up TWL. Don't know why, just not interested. Saw them in Atlanta last week. It was okay, but ultimately not worth the time and money. I would have much rather read to my kids and put them to bed. Bull Black Nova was good, as was Side With the Seeds. I'm comparing this to seeing Neil Young last year. I was in a trance the entire time watching him and just hung on every damn note. I would be interested if Jeff did something different. I've listened to Autumn Defense more in the last year than Wilco. I think it just happens, we fall in and out of bands. I recently started listening to the dead again after 5 year break. My new interests are Widespread Panic (sorry) and English Folk Rock a la Fairport and Pentangle.

 

Oh, and if we are comparing Wilco's timeline to the Dead...we're 15 years in. 15 years in with the Dead we got Day Job!

 

You know, it's been a long time since I've listened to any Widespread Panic. I thought their debut record was great. And I had the three-disc set of the live show in Athens (GA) that was pretty stellar. Probably haven't listened to that since 2001.

[Vacant Horizon]

 

You know, it's been a long time since I've listened to any Widespread Panic. I thought their debut record was great. And I had the three-disc set of the live show in Athens (GA) that was pretty stellar. Probably haven't listened to that since 2001.

 

right. you couldn't get through college in the early 90s with out hearing space wrangler. i never was into them. however, the drummer in my band was playing their most recent cd after an outdoor show we did and it just nailed me. can't get enough of it. i'm a jimmy herring fan too...so that doesn't hurt.

[Vacant Horizon]

I also believe Nels is a big part of the problem. They simply do not need him. He interjects himself and it just sounds out of place. His guitar sound is mostly thin and he is basically a one trick pony. He runs the scales too much for my taste. He does not know the meaning of the word subtle. There is no question that he is extremely talented, I just think he is wrong for the band. The guitar sounds and solos are so much better on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and Ghost is Born. This new album is pretty great and he does blend better than he ever has. Give the man a Gibson! I can also do without his pedal steel guitar playing. It's good, but just get it off the Wilco album. I think he works well live, which is probably why they keep him on board. The fans seem to like his guitar bits. I think he needs to go, or at least be out of the country when they are recording.

 

If "The Whole Love" came out after "Ghost is Born" they wouldn't have missed a beat.

 

i started a thread here after nels joined the band called 'is nels cline essential?' needless to say i was lambasted. i like nels pedal steel and his little trey anastasio licks. the rest i could do without. he's not a great guitar player. anyone can hook up 50 pedals and run a steel pole up and down the neck and make noise. every other tune live ends in a wall of nels distortion. i think it's cheap playing and cliche. i'd much rather hear jeff play lead with nice worked out solos a la ALTWYS. the band needs a guitarist who can support jeff's songs at least. at best, it would be a guitarist who has a particular sound that is listenable and specific. DBT needs this too.

[greg]

live shows, most of the time, only live in memory, records last, hopefully, forever. i agree with you vacant re: nels... and mr crow daddy, yes blow em the hell up. he's done it before, why not do it again?

[ih8music]

I can respect not liking Nels' aesthetic and what he brings to Wilco, but to call him not a great guitar player is just ridiculous.

[-seven]

i started a thread here after nels joined the band called 'is nels cline essential?' needless to say i was lambasted.

 

i'd much rather hear jeff play lead with nice worked out solos a la ALTWYS.

 

I've been reluctant to reply to this topic because of the 'lambasting'. In fact, I've typed replies several times and then deleted them all before posting because there are some topics on this board that are like pouring gasoline on a fire. I'm not sure why it's not okay with some people to discuss these things but I guess I understand people's need to defend the things they love.

 

But, anyway, I have had this discussion with my husband who is also a big Wilco fan since way back. I'm not a guitar player (my husband is) so I can't say this with any authority but I understand that people feel Nels is a great guitar player. I also understand that the live shows with him are incredible. It's just there is something missing and I think it has to do with the second sentence that I quoted above about ALTWYS. There is something about Jeff's playing, particularly on that song that is dripping with feeling, soul, emotion, meaning, whatever you want to call it that is just not there for me with the songs that they have created since Nels has come on. Nels may have technical abilities that astound people, but he doesn't seem to have the ability to convey emotion in a way that moves me like that.

[LouieB]

 

i i like nels pedal steel .

Not to split hairs, but Nels usually plays lap steel unless he took up pedal steel in the last couple years. I mean I think I could play pedal steel just fine.

 

LouieB

[mpolak21]

This isn't my favorite lineup of the band (that would be the Bennett/Kotche lineup on YHF) or even my second favorite lineup of the band (that would be the AGIB: Bach/Jorgensen crew), but on the tracks where the six-piece really clicks they can be incredibly transcendent and amazing. Like here:

 

 

 

With The Whole Love I have the studio album that sounds the most like the one I'd always hoped they make, so I am not quite as interested in the band changing it up as I might have been a few years ago.

 

--Mike

[choo-choo-charlie]

Not to split hairs, but Nels usually plays lap steel unless he took up pedal steel in the last couple years. I mean I think I could play pedal steel just fine.

 

LouieB

 

I was going to point out the same thing. There's a difference, folks.

[-seven]

but on the tracks where the six-piece really clicks they can be incredibly transcendent and amazing. Like here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QSK6Jh47K4

 

 

But, you see, Nels didn't write that song either. He plays the songs incredibly, no doubt.

[Preferred B]

I totally understand that people might prefer Jeff's guitar solos to Nels's, or the songs created before Nels to the songs created with Nels, etc. But I think some people are kind of missing the point that Nels doesn't add anything to a song (solos, pedal effects, lap steel, whatever) that the rest of the band - and specifically Jeff - don't want him to add. This has been covered many times in interviews with Jeff when asked about Nels's contribution to Wilco. So what you don't like isn't really Nels. What you don't like is what Jeff/Wilco wants Nels to do. Or what Jeff doesn't want to do himself at this point, and feels is better expressed by Nels. This isn't contrary to Greg's wish, but it's contrary to what some people seem to be expressing here.

[aricandover]

I totally understand that people might prefer Jeff's guitar solos to Nels's, or the songs created before Nels to the songs created with Nels, etc. But I think some people are kind of missing the point that Nels doesn't add anything to a song (solos, pedal effects, lap steel, whatever) that the rest of the band - and specifically Jeff - don't want him to add. This has been covered many times in interviews with Jeff when asked about Nels's contribution to Wilco. So what you don't like isn't really Nels. What you don't like is what Jeff/Wilco wants Nels to do. Or what Jeff doesn't want to do himself at this point, and feels is better expressed by Nels. This isn't contrary to Greg's wish, but it's contrary to what some people seem to be expressing here.

 

no

[Preferred B]

 

no

 

YOU'RE contrary to what some people are expressing here.

 

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

 

But, you see, Nels didn't write that song either. He plays the songs incredibly, no doubt.

 

Well..John didn't write that song either. Nor did Pat, Glenn or Mikael.

[-seven]

 

 

Well..John didn't write that song either. Nor did Pat, Glenn or Mikael.

 

Maybe I should clarify that Nels didn't write that guitar part.

[Doug C]

Arrgh! At the risk of banishment for being an annoying S.O.B. unable to take a hint, I will be as clear as I can in a final attempt at message boarding. Does anyone else think that John and Glenn are an essential part of Wilco?

 

I can appreciate all of the opinions on Nels and enjoy reading them but again, what about John and Glenn? Essential or expendable? Why? I thank you in advance for all comments, both relevant and irrelevant, i.e., witty insults.

[LouieB]

 

no

Welcome back!!

 

LouieB

[-seven]

John and Glenn are essential. Yes.

I meant to include this in my earlier post but got confused on how to multi-quote.

[Ghost of Electricity]

Jeff said himself in Ashes that the band could withstand another lineup change as long as its not John. so John is essential. Personally i believe that Glenn is too.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Jeff said himself in Ashes that the band could withstand another lineup change as long as its not John. so John is essential. Personally i believe that Glenn is too.

 

I was going to post the same quote from Ashes.

I have a feeling that if anybody leaves this incarnation of Wilco, Jeff will call it a day.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Arrgh! At the risk of banishment for being an annoying S.O.B. unable to take a hint, I will be as clear as I can in a final attempt at message boarding. Does anyone else think that John and Glenn are an essential part of Wilco?

 

I can appreciate all of the opinions on Nels and enjoy reading them but again, what about John and Glenn? Essential or expendable? Why? I thank you in advance for all comments, both relevant and irrelevant, i.e., witty insults.

 

By linking the blog and quoting it, you place the emphasis on the undesirability of having Nels (and by implication, Pat and Mikael) in the band. If that's what it takes for you or anybody to retain their fandom, well, you are probably going to be disappointed.

John and Glenn are essential. ALL rhythm sections are the backbone of a bands sound

However, in 1998, you probably could have said the same thing about Ken.

[-seven]

I don't see Jeff ever calling it a day. I picture him playing on just like Neil Young. Also the quote makes it seem like he'd be okay with a line up change as long as John stayed, so I don't see why you'd think think he'd pack it in.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I have a feeling that if anybody leaves this incarnation of Wilco, Jeff will call it a day.

No way.

 

As much as I like the current lineup, I wouldn't mind a pretty radical lineup overhaul. Not that it'll happen soon, but it will eventually.

[goldsnake]

I think they would be great as a 4 piece. Jeff, John, Glenn, and Pat. John is definitely needed for it to be Wilco. The rest could go. Although, they would have a hell of a time finding someone better than Glenn. The 6 man lineup is unnecessary and a bit much. I would even love to hear them as a 3 piece without Pat.