Winston Legthigh Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Miguel Cabrera is putting together one of the best seasons to finish 2nd in MVP voting ever. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Trout is definitely juicing, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Miguel Cabrera is putting together one of the best seasons to finish 2nd in MVP voting ever.Craig Calcaterra has a funny piece about this on Hardball Talk today written in the voice of Ted Williams, who definitely had some legitimate complaints about MVP voting. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/19/a-message-from-ted-williams/ Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Craig Calcaterra has a funny piece about this on Hardball Talk today written in the voice of Ted Williams, who definitely had some legitimate complaints about MVP voting. http://hardballtalk....m-ted-williams/ that was good. Thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Ichiro 7-for-8 with 4 steals in Wednesday's doubleheader. Flashback of 2001! Mr. Suzuki is hitting .317 with the Yanks. Good to see him make a bit of return to form. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Interesting story about a career minor leaguer. My favorite quote: Rodriguez spent four years in Boston and earned a spring-training invite in each of them. He smiled when he recalls catching Pedro Martinez at his peak: "He says to me that first day: 'I'm working on fastballs in and fastballs away. My curveball is my best pitch. My changeup is my other best pitch.'" http://deadspin.com/5944179/who-is-the-blurry-guy-in-this-photo-and-why-did-manny-ramirez-steal-his-pants-the-story-of-the-machete Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 I want to go on record with an official admission. When the Rangers were unable to resign Cliff Lee after the 2010 season, I thought the signing of Adrian Beltre was a stopgap consolation prize. I Was Wrong. Beltre is the best thrid baseman in the game, one of the best of all time, a clutch hitter and a defensive wizard. No Matter how the MVP vote goes (and Trout winning over Cabrera is likely and a travesty to boot), Beltre is the best player in the game right now. Watching him game in and game out, he is simply stellar. I'm watching every game (and getting more than a little baseball fatigue) and am enjoying seeing Rangers shirts being heavily represented at away games. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 One of my two favorite Rangers (along with Elvis). He's definitely the MVP for the Rangers. Cabrera is having an unbelievable year, though, and should probably win it. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 One of my two favorite Rangers (along with Elvis). He's definitely the MVP for the Rangers. Cabrera is having an unbelievable year, though, and should probably win it. Trout's going to win. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 So Nats make post season and no Strasburg? Nice. Guess they really don't need him.... Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Trout's going to win. Probably. I don't think he should. Of course, if Miggy hits a few more home runs down the stretch and wins the Triple Crown, I bet he wins it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I wonder what Trout is on. Link to post Share on other sites
sonicshoulder Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Brandon Phillips!!! Best defensive second baseman ever? It's hard to say how good Hornsby and Nap Lajoie were with the glove but I cant imagine them being better and would doubt they had the arm strength. I know in baseball when you say a current guy is "best ever" people automatically challenge it but my dad who is a 67 year old baseball fanatic and lifelong Red's fan says he's better than Morgan. He makes plays that are beyond great, they're almost impossible and always plays with a smile. Whatever the case we are very fortunate to have him in our city for the last 8 years. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 What's the argument against Mike Trout winning? He is roughly the same as Cabrera with the bat this year, but with much better defense at a more important position. I'm a Tigers fan who would love to see Miggy win it, but clearly Trout has had a better season. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 If Cabrera wins the triple crown, he'll probably win on that alone. That's a rare feat and carries a lot of weight. Both the Tigers and Angels, despite winning, haven't done as well as they could have, so team performance may not matter in the vote - except that the Angels' season turned around with Trout's callup and performance. I'm in favor of Trout, but Cabrera has become the Eddie Murray of this generation - always in the top five in MVP voting, but never winning the trophy. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 If Cabrera wins the triple crown and doesn't win the MVP, then they ought to stop giving the damn thing. The hitting Triple Crown in one of the rarest accomplishments in Professional sports. People are STILL talking about Ted Williams not winning the MVP in 1941. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 People are STILL talking about Ted Williams not winning the MVP in 1941.Not to nitpick but 1941 was the year Williams hit .406, and led the league in home runs, runs, walks, OBP, Slugging, and OPS and didn't win the MVP. 1942 and 1947 were the two years Williams won the triple crown and didn't get the MVP. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 If Cabrera wins the triple crown and doesn't win the MVP, then they ought to stop giving the damn thing. The hitting Triple Crown in one of the rarest accomplishments in Professional sports. People are STILL talking about Ted Williams not winning the MVP in 1941. Does the fact that it is rare automatically make him more valuable though? Why do those 3 stat categories (two of which are outdated and very overrated in terms of assessing overall value) mean more than all the other stat categories? And doesn't defense matter at all? Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 What's the argument against Mike Trout winning? He is roughly the same as Cabrera with the bat this year, but with much better defense at a more important position.I spent a bunch of time in my car this weekend listening to sports talk radio (two things I don't normally do) and heard some talk about this. The arguments for Cabrera (some of which I agree with and some of which I don't) were:Cabrera's hot and Trout is not. Cabrera is hitting over .350 over the past two months and Trout is hitting in the .270s. Cabrera has 48 RBIs in August/September and Trout has 23, inlcuding only 4 in September.They have similar average and OBP numbers but in almost every other category Cabrera has better numbers.One area where Trout has significantly better offensive numbers is steals and with rare exception (Maury WIlls in 1962) that is not a category that MVP voters care about.Similarly, defense has rarely swayed MVP voters.Based on the people I heard talking, they seemed to think Trout had been the favorite but that Cabrera's current hot streak - and the fact that Cabrera's numbers in the big three categories are better - make him the favorite. Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Cabrera should get it. I don't think neither the White Sox nor the Tigers want to make the playoff this year - the Sox are killing me - jeez. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Although I favor Trout, I'll concede that if the Tigers make the playoffs and the Angels don't, Cabrera should win the MVP. We all thought Detroit would walk away with the division, but they're struggling to compete for the wild card. The Tigers most likely are. 500 or worse without Miggy. They have holes in their lineup and they're slow defensively. The Angels are finishing third mostly because the A's have played well beyond anyone's expectations. To me the A's success does not lessen the impact Trout has had on the Angels and the American League. He's been tremendous. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Although I favor Trout, I'll concede that if the Tigers make the playoffs and the Angels don't, Cabrera should win the MVP. We all thought Detroit would walk away with the division, but they're struggling to compete for the wild card. The Tigers most likely are. 500 or worse without Miggy. They have holes in their lineup and they're slow defensively. The Angels are finishing third mostly because the A's have played well beyond anyone's expectations. To me the A's success does not lessen the impact Trout has had on the Angels and the American League. He's been tremendous. Actually the Tigers are well out of the wild card but can win the division. Also, you say that the Tigers are slow defensively as if Cabrera himself is not one of the culprits in that regard. I also think the Angels are below .500 without Trout, and (yes, small sample size) they were not very good before he was called up. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I spent a bunch of time in my car this weekend listening to sports talk radio (two things I don't normally do) and heard some talk about this. The arguments for Cabrera (some of which I agree with and some of which I don't) were:Cabrera's hot and Trout is not. Cabrera is hitting over .350 over the past two months and Trout is hitting in the .270s. Cabrera has 48 RBIs in August/September and Trout has 23, inlcuding only 4 in September.They have similar average and OBP numbers but in almost every other category Cabrera has better numbers.One area where Trout has significantly better offensive numbers is steals and with rare exception (Maury WIlls in 1962) that is not a category that MVP voters care about.Similarly, defense has rarely swayed MVP voters.Based on the people I heard talking, they seemed to think Trout had been the favorite but that Cabrera's current hot streak - and the fact that Cabrera's numbers in the big three categories are better - make him the favorite. All of these are fine explanations for why Cabrera may win the MVP, but none of them are compelling reasons why he should. The first point implies that playing well late in the season is more valuable than playing well early in the year, which is just nonsense -- every game counts the same in the standings. The second point isn't even really true (there are several stats that Cabrera does not have have better numbers at all, and some of those where Cabrera leads can easily be explained away by the month that Trout spent in the minors at the beginning of the year, as well as line-up construction). Also, just because MVP voters often don't consider defense doesn't mean they shouldn't. I can't believe how strongly I'm arguing against one of my favorite players in the game, and the best player on my favorite team. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 The MVP award has become about who has the best stats, not who the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER is. Best stats = Miguel Cabrera. Most VALUABLE player...that is going to be heavily influenced by who we watch on a daily basis. My MVP is Adrian Beltre. I don't get a vote. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Cabrera should get it. I don't think neither the White Sox nor the Tigers want to make the playoff this year - the Sox are killing me - jeez. Definitely a turtle race. Tigers are 10-10 since they last shared first place with the Sox on Sept 2. (I guess that means Sox are .500 since that game too, duh). Regardless, makes every game seem like the postseason, which is exciting. Link to post Share on other sites
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