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Presidential Race (Respector Edition)

lost highway

By lost highway,
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Sparky speaks

Sparky speaks

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Another good boring article that really has nothing to do with the birth certificate issue but how both candidates are not very different from each other...

 

Why Romney Is Raising the Birth Certificate Issue

by Jacob G. Hornberger

 

While the Obama camp and even some in the GOP ranks are upset with Mitt Romney for bringing up the issue of President Obama’s birth certificate, the reason Romney did it might well be that it’s the only issue on which he and Obama disagree. On all the fundamental issues, with the exception of abortion, the two candidates are on the same page.

 

Take foreign policy.

 

While they’ll squabble over this intervention or that one, or over the amount of foreign aid given to any particular regime, the fact is that they both share the same perspective: that the U.S. government should continue in its role as a worldwide military empire, with military bases strung all over the world, and continue in its role as a world policeman, intervener, interloper, protector, and welfare provider.

 

They both believe that the U.S. government should continue providing foreign aid, in the form of cash and armaments, to foreign regimes, including pro-U.S. dictatorships.

 

They both believe in assassination, torture, invasions, occupations, embargoes, sanctions, and interference with foreign elections, especially as a way to bring pro-U.S. regimes into power.

 

Indeed, they both ardently believe in the entire concept of the national-security state, the vast military-intelligence apparatus that was engrafted onto the American way of life in 1947, purportedly to oppose the “communist threat.”

 

Indeed, both Obama and Romney embrace the “war on terrorism,” which they both acknowledge is endless, and also favor continuing to grant extreme deference to the Pentagon and the CIA in foreign policy. Neither of them would ever consider challenging the ever-increasing military and intelligence budgets, much less the very existence of the military-industrial complex, the CIA, the NSA, and the entire national-security state apparatus.

 

Most important, neither candidate will even consider the possibility that the paradigm of imperialism, interventionism, national security, and militarism to which they are both so devoted is one of the root causes of America’s woes in both fiscal policy and the constant threat of terrorism. Thus, they end up arguing over silly inanities about who would make a “tougher” president.

 

Take civil liberties. No difference there either, owing to President Obama’s full embrace of the Republican denigration of civil liberties practically from the start of his presidency. Gitmo, indefinite detention without trial, immunity for U.S. torturers, immunity for U.S. telecoms, denial of trial by jury, assassination, military detention, kangaroo tribunals. Both candidates embrace all these hallmarks of totalitarian regimes, in the name of “national security” and the “war on terrorism,” the magic buzz terms that dictatorial regimes throughout history have cited to justify anything they want to do both citizens and noncitizens alike...

 

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2012-08-27.asp

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KevinG

KevinG

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I think if BO can insinuate MR is "too rich", MR can insinuate BO is "too foreign". Hahaha That just came to me. ;)

Both insinuations are dumb.

 

Wrong.

 

The birth certificate thing, is and always has been thinly veiled racism. You think there would be any of this birther BS if PBO was named John Smith and white? Absolutely not. Now is Mitt a racist for saying his joke? No, probably not. But he is playing to that element in the republican party.

 

Chris Matthews (as much of a blowhard as he can be) is right. The GOP is subtlety playing the race card, with their idiotic and untrue Welfare ads and now with this. And yet Mitt has the audacity to whine and cry that PBO is running a negative campaign.

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Tweedling

Tweedling

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Believe me, I'm not a birther but I think it's horse shit to call someone racist because they question where someone was born. If the GOP is subtlety playing the race card then it's fair to say the dems jump at every chance to call a white republican a racist. Just because you mention where someone was raised or that their father was Kenyan or that their mother married an Indonesian Muslim does NOT make you a racist. I believe it's just the facts. It's not bad or good. Reality.....not Racism. Will some people run from that and scream "he's an extremist!" yes. But even then I do not believe its racism. I just feel people throw "racism" around a tad bit too much. Especially when you've got Biden playing it up on the other side!!! "...y'all back in chains." puhlease! Is he racist?

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KevinG

KevinG

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Believe me, I'm not a birther but I think it's horse shit to call someone racist because they question where someone was born. If the GOP is subtlety playing the race card then it's fair to say the dems jump at every chance to call a white republican a racist. Just because you mention where someone was raised or that their father was Kenyan or that their mother married an Indonesian Muslim does NOT make you a racist. I believe it's just the facts. It's not bad or good. Reality.....not Racism. Will some people run from that and scream "he's an extremist!" yes. But even then I do not believe its racism. I just feel people throw "racism" around a tad bit too much. Especially when you've got Biden playing it up on the other side!!! "...y'all back in chains." puhlease! Is he racist?

 

Facts: PBO, father a Kenyan, mother married a Muslim, "raised" in Indonesia from 6 to 10, BORN in the US.

 

I never said that if someone brings up his father, his mother's background, or his schooling in Indonesia, makes them a racist. Perfectly fine to do that, a person's history explains their character. Just as Mitt's schooling and history adds to his.

 

However you question PBO place of birth, that is racism. Mitt is playing to that element with his joke.

 

I mean hell, John McCain was born in freaking Panama and did he get dogged with the birther BS? No. Ask yourself why.

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KevinG

KevinG

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I believe McCain was born in a US Navy hospital. Not exactly "born in Panama".

 

Exactly, maybe I didn't explain my nuance in my point. John McCain was born in a US naval hospital in Panama. PBO was born in Hawaii. Why did no one question McCain's birth certificate? Do we really know that it was in the hospital, and not in some hut in the jungle? Why is no one questioning Mitt's for that matter? Michigan is awfully close to Canada and his family lived in Mexico. I mean I am not saying they weren't born in this country but you know it raises questions. And Paul Ryan, with his dream eyes and 6% body fat he doesn't even sound human. Are we sure he was born on this planet? (anyone see what I am doing here?)

 

What I am trying to get at is that only reason people questioned PBO birth certificate is cause he doesn't look like any other president ever. It is racist. Mitt played to that element.

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Winston Legthigh

Winston Legthigh

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Q: Where were you born?

A: Hawaii

Q: Can you prove it?

A: Yes, why don't you contact the official record-keeper in Hawaii?

 

That questioning is not racist.

 

But when the questioning persists, after adequate documentation has been produced, where is that coming from? It's a form of prejudice, and the fact that GOP leaders do nothing to put out that fire shows the contempt they have for their own voter base.

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KevinG

KevinG

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Q: Where were you born?

A: Hawaii

Q: Can you prove it?

A: Yes, why don't you contact the official record-keeper in Hawaii?

 

That questioning is not racist.

 

But when the questioning persists, after adequate documentation has been produced, where is that coming from? It's a form of prejudice, and the fact that GOP leaders do nothing to put out that fire shows the contempt they have for their own voter base.

Q: Where were you born?

A: Hawaii

Q: Can you prove it?

A: Yes, why don't you contact the official record-keeper in Hawaii?

 

That questioning is not racist.

 

But when the questioning persists, after adequate documentation has been produced, where is that coming from? It's a form of prejudice, and the fact that GOP leaders do nothing to put out that fire shows the contempt they have for their own voter base.

 

Exactly, well said as always.

 

Also Tweedling and Jules, why didn't these questions of birth come up for John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan? My questions about their birth were as valid as those questions about PBO's. Prove to me they were born on in this country.

 

Bring up once, fine, continually bring it up, come on (I am talking the GOP/TEA Party in general, not anyone here specifically).

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Winston Legthigh

Winston Legthigh

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Also Tweedling and Jules, why didn't these questions of birth come up for John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Paul Ryan? My questions about their birth were as valid as those questions about PBO's. Prove to me they were born on in this country.

 

Bring up once, fine, continually bring it up, come on (I am talking the GOP/TEA Party in general, not anyone here specifically).

 

To be fair, I do remember the McCain issue coming up in 2000, but I assume that was put out there by the same people in the Bush camp who started the whole sired-a-bastard-with-his-maid rumor.

 

It doesn't really matter where McCain was born, because both his parents were US citizens anyway.

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KevinG

KevinG

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Jesus, do any of y'all ever get tired of constantly whining about everything? Who cares? Do whatever it takes to get elected. That's the name of the game.

 

So this is your first day on the internet I assume.

 

Listen there is a fine line between doing whatever it takes to get a elected and lying to get elected, or using racism to get elected. I want to process not be tainted by using political means to keep people form voting. These things are important to point out. Do I think I am changing anyone's mind here? Of course not. But the debate is good and it passes the time. It also let's me express my outrage in a forum were people engage me and my beliefs. Sometime it is thoughtful other times it is stupid. But this is the internet. People will bitch, people will complain.

 

But the irony is you care, you complain, care enough to say you don't do (or chastise us who do).

 

So do I get tired of whining, yes. Will I stop, no.

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Mr. Heartbreak

Mr. Heartbreak

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The whole "birther" issue has gone on for far too long. It should have been a dead issue long ago.

At best, Romney should have learned that he is not a comedian. He should not try to tell a joke. And, it shows how tone deaf and insensitive he is. Imagine any other president being asked to produce his birth certificate after his election. Exactly.

Romney is probably correct, no one has ever asked for his birth certificate. He has also probably never been pulled over for driving while white. So he is either a terrible comedian who is incredibly unaware of what the experience is of an African-American male (having people cross the street to avoid passing you, etc., etc) or he is trying to pander to the birther crazies in a somewhat subtle way. At best, tone deaf and insensitive in the extreme, or, at worst, pandering to people's worst instincts (he's not one of us, he's not like us, he's a Muslim, he's not an American citizen, etc., etc.) And yes, that is pandering to racists, whether you are a racist yourself or not.

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bleedorange

bleedorange

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So this is your first day on the internet I assume.

 

Listen there is a fine line between doing whatever it takes to get a elected and lying to get elected, or using racism to get elected. I want to process not be tainted by using political means to keep people form voting. These things are important to point out. Do I think I am changing anyone's mind here? Of course not. But the debate is good and it passes the time. It also let's me express my outrage in a forum were people engage me and my beliefs. Sometime it is thoughtful other times it is stupid. But this is the internet. People will bitch, people will complain.

 

But the irony is you care, you complain, care enough to say you don't do (or chastise us who do).

 

So do I get tired of whining, yes. Will I stop, no.

 

What do lying, appealing to the lowest common denominator, walking the fine line between what may be acceptable or what may not be, etc., all have in common?

 

They are all commonly used campaign tactics. So this is your first day following politics in the United States, I assume?

 

I think everyone on this board would love for the conversation to be elevated to the point where substantive issues are examined and discussed. A campaign full of meaningful debate. A government willing to compromise. However, we are in the vast minority. And candidates need to get elected. So, yeah, I think whining about every little thing that occurs that you may find objectionable is a waste of time.

 

Edit: I have no idea what you're trying to say in the sentence in bold.

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