General Political Thread

[calvino]

regardless of the job he does his actions are pretty telling of the current state of political discourse.  

 

Issa is a big jerk and his hearings are mostly baseless and going after directly after Jay Carney like that was childish.  I just wish Jay would risen above it and not stooped to that level.  

 

I have heard the Left praising Carney and the right saying Carney's reaction was because Issa is getting close to the truth or some other nonsense.  It is just stupid prattle.

 

 

According to your link (I haven't been following this "Grand Theft" stuff), David Plouffe was the one who tweeted the "Grand Theft" bit, not Carney - Plouffe was backing Jay up. I do have great respect for Plouffe - but you are right here - Plouffe should have taken the high road.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

And hate will save the dolphins.

Hate will keep us together

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

See when your write the things you do, you sound foolish and you do no good for anything.  Disagree and hate what the GOP all you want, but in my mind you don't seem to have an intelligent thought in your head.  I always felt that when you argue and passionate about something you need to rise above those debating.  If some calls you a liar, why call them a big fat liar.  Explain why they are wrong.  

 

Case and point.  This weekend Issa called Jay Carney a "paid lair" then Jay used twitter to bring up Issa's sorted past and called him Mr. Grand Theft Auto.  http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/03/18720608-mr-grand-theft-auto-gets-a-brush-back-pitch?lite.  Which is a stupid exchange between two grown men who are supposed to be working for the people of the United State.  

 

We as a nation have lost the notion of respect.  And with petty comments like this the story moves from the issue to the name calling.  Just like when you post whatever the hell you post it derails the conversation.  

 

Facts will always beat the psychos.  Also whereas I don't agree with Hixter, bleedorange, and other conservatives here, I respect them, enough to let them have their say and not to spew nonsensical phrases at them.  If you talked to us like your GOP friends in DC,  maybe your frustrations would be heard and understood, but right now you sound like a clown and far worse than anyone on the right.  At least Palin, Rush, McConnell can put together an intelligible sentence.

 

Ad hominum attacks say more about the person doing the attacking than they do about the intended target.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I love this thread. Not sure if it's because I'm a political junkie or just a glutton for punishment. Maybe a little of both.

[Tweedling]

One thing is for sure, no one is safe. Ha!

[KevinG]

So the NSA has been collecting phone data.  

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

 

I love the false outrage.  I mean, what did you think would happen with the Patriot Act?  

 

This will be just another thing for the GOP to go after Obama.  Curious, the rallying cry of the economy is terrible and it's PBO's fault have died down.  

[Hixter]

 I mean, what did you think would happen with the Patriot Act?  

FISA predates the Patriot act by more than a decade. I believe it came into being during the Carter administration.

[KevinG]

FISA predates the Patriot act by more than a decade. I believe it came into being during the Carter administration.

 

FISA was passed in 1978, but the the Patriot Act increased the FISA courts powers.  Specifically section 215 allows "business records" to be collected with a single warrant. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_summary_of_the_Patriot_Act,_Title_II#Section_215:_Access_to_records_and_other_items_under_FISA 

 

Without the Patriot Act this would not be possible. 

 

But that is not the point, it is going to be the false outrage that will come form the Right over the next few days.  And more to my point, the economy is all but forgotten.  

[Hixter]

But that is not the point, it is going to be the false outrage that will come form the Right over the next few days.

The Patriot Act would have expired if President Obama hadn't extended it. He owns it now. If the outrage from "the Right" is false because a Democrat is in office, then the outrage from "the Left" was false while Bush was in office.

And more to my point, the economy is all but forgotten.

No it hasn't. It's still in the shitter and everyone knows it.

[Winston Legthigh]

 

No it hasn't. It's still in the shitter and everyone knows it.

 

Could be worse. Could be raining...

[KevinG]

The Patriot Act would have expired if President Obama hadn't extended it. He owns it now. If the outrage from "the Right" is false because a Democrat is in office, then the outrage from "the Left" was false while Bush was in office.

 

What the hell are you even talking about?  

 

Of course Obama owns it, I am not trying to push this off on anyone.  In 2001 the Patriot Act overwhelmingly passed, this gave unprecedented powers to the US government.  And now it comes to light that the Government uses these powers and everyone is pissed?  Give me a break. 

 

So when Dems complained about the Patriot Act and still voted for it, the outrage is false.  Just as it is today.  That is not the point. Just because the Left (minus groups like the ACLU who always hated the Patriot Act) was wrong in the outrage when Bush was president doesn't make the outrage expressed by the right any less stupid and misguided.  This tit for tat crap that goes on in political discussions is so childish. 

 

 

No it hasn't. It's still in the shitter and everyone knows it.

 

Well tell that to Congress and the Media.  Nary a word has been spoken about the economy since the IRS/DOJ/Benghazi/NSA phone "scandals."

 

The economy is improving and has for awhile.  And if it is as bad as you seem to think what is congress doing about it?

[Hixter]

 Nary a word has been spoken about the economy since the IRS/DOJ/Benghazi/NSA phone "scandals."

You must read different news outlets than I do. 

 

P.S. Those quotation marks don't belong.

[Hixter]

Here's a good one: they're trying to pass a law in New York that would make it a crime to annoy a police officer. I suspect that it will be used against citizens with cameras now that the courts have repeatedly ruled that a person can't be arrested for taking photos of cops in public places.

 

http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senate-passes-bill-making-harassment-police-officer-crime

[KevinG]

You must read different news outlets than I do. 

 

P.S. Those quotation marks don't belong.

 

Show your work.  

 

Did a search on "economy" on CNN.com (which if memory serves is a news outlet you said you read).  Not only do a majority of the stories deal with Economy in other countries, if they discuss the US economy, it is overwhelming in positive terms.  

 

And I have described why these are not scandals in a previous post.  You obviously think differently.  Please explain.  

 

This is the point I am trying to make.  This NSA thing as well as the other issues that the Right is constantly bringing up are nothing more then a distraction from the current state of the Economy.  It is improving (albeit not fast enough for my tastes and could be going much better).  The Right is trying to bring down any agenda held by this president.  I am all for a solid economic debate on ways to further our current growth, but the distraction and obstructionist politics are getting to be a bit silly.

 

 

EDIT:  

 

BTW this is the false outrage I am talking about.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/jim-sensenbrenner-nsa_n_3397440.html

 

Maybe when you wrote the law you shouldn't have given the government such sweeping powers.

[lost highway]

Here's why the NSA business has not kept this thread active: it's non-partisan fascism.

 

The finger pointing doesn't work, it hasn't really even gotten action on the dumb-dumb news.  This whole business started under Bush with the Patriot Act (double speak nomenclature) and has continued, and really been extended under Obama.  It isn't a democrat vs. republican issue.  It's a federal government overreach in the name of safety issue.

 

The fact that everyone is so in shock over what Snowden said shows how naive this country has gotten.  Call me a cynic, but my response is "Well yeah.... I'd kind of assumed as much.  It's pretty sad."

[Guest Jules]

Anyone in shock is a fucking moron.

[lamradio]

It's starting to look more and more like whoever created this gif knew exactly what they were doing...

 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Meanwhile, here is another member of the well-armed militia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/4-year-old-shot-father-details_n_3418509.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D326670

[bleedorange]

This is both weird and sad:

 

Journalism and Democracy in Wisconsin

[JUDE]

I fully support common sense regulations such as mandatory background checks on children under 10 before allowing them to purchase firearms.

[KevinG]

Here's why the NSA business has not kept this thread active: it's non-partisan fascism.

 

The finger pointing doesn't work, it hasn't really even gotten action on the dumb-dumb news.  This whole business started under Bush with the Patriot Act (double speak nomenclature) and has continued, and really been extended under Obama.  It isn't a democrat vs. republican issue.  It's a federal government overreach in the name of safety issue.

 

The fact that everyone is so in shock over what Snowden said shows how naive this country has gotten.  Call me a cynic, but my response is "Well yeah.... I'd kind of assumed as much.  It's pretty sad."

 

 

Steve Benen had and article about how a majority of the US supports NSA surveillance.   Interestingly to note how support changed based upon the year and who is in office.  His basic point is all that matters who is the office.   

 

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/11/18900012-us-majority-backs-nsa-surveillance?lite

 

Which I think really kinda sums up what is wrong with our political system right now.  It shouldn't matter.  It comes down to this, in 2001 we gave up our civil liberties with the Patriot Act, we should not be shocked an outraged that NSA is using the power it was given.  It is clearly spelled out in the Act and the through the FISA court.  It is a done deal, if politicians are so horrified maybe they should have thought twice about voting for this thing in the first place (and then reauthorizing it again in 2012).  They all made the bed we have to sleep in.  

 

The only person who has the right to be outraged and can be truly critical of the NSA is Russ Feingold, former Senator form Wisconsin, the lone no vote against the Patriot Act in 2001, who said this:

 

 

 

Under this provision, the government can apparently go on a fishing expedition and collect information on virtually anyone. All it has to allege in order to get an order for these records from the court is that the information is sought for an investigation of international terrorism or clandestine intelligence gathering. That's it. On that minimal showing in an ex parte application to a secret court, with no showing even that the information is relevant to the investigation, the government can lawfully compel a doctor or hospital to release medical records, or a library to release circulation records. This is a truly breathtaking expansion of police power.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130610/17083023397/unfortunate-that-russ-feingold-got-swept-out-office-2010-as-his-predictions-have-come-true.shtml

 

But yeah as the article states he was voted out in the TEA party wave of 2010.  He was replaced by Ron Johnson, who said this about the Patriot Act and leaks, etc.  To say the least I have no idea what if anything he actually said.

 

 

 

This is both weird and sad:

 

Journalism and Democracy in Wisconsin

 

Living in Wisconsin, I see that the Right wing majority is doing their best to stamp out any sort of dissent from the left.  Don't get me started on the ridiculous budget they are set to pass.  

[Hixter]

Meanwhile, here is another member of the well-armed militia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/4-year-old-shot-father-details_n_3418509.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D326670

Only cops can be trusted to safely handle firearms.

[Beltmann]

Living in Wisconsin, I see that the Right wing majority is doing their best to stamp out any sort of dissent from the left.  Don't get me started on the ridiculous budget they are set to pass.  

 

I live in Wisconsin as well, and what strikes me is how the far-right majority is pretty transparent and brazen about what they are doing--they aren't even attempting to appear centrist or fair-minded.  I keep saying that it feels like we're living inside of an Onion article.

[KevinG]

 

 

I live in Wisconsin as well, and what strikes me is how the far-right majority is pretty transparent and brazen about what they are doing--they aren't even attempting to appear centrist or fair-minded.  I keep saying that it feels like we're living inside of an Onion article.

 

 

Just another thing in the line of the craziness that is Wisconsin politics.  

 

http://www.rightwisconsin.com/perspectives/211378951.html

[KevinG]

Since this thread is pretty much dead and even Hixter's attempt at getting the gun debate going again didn't work (I mean does anyone really care that much any more, it is not like anything will be done ever).  I am going to point out again what is happening in Wisconsin, which you can take as a cautionary tale or as a tale of triumph, depending on your point of view.

 

Some backstory, the TEA party and the right got their foothold in Wisconsin in 2010, not only electing a seemingly moderate, but in essence extremely right wing governor, and ousting probably the best and most honest Senators in the past decades (Russ Feingold).  This of course lead to Act 10 (which ended collected bargaining, and lead to the recalls etc.)  This also lead to a one sided redistricting of the state that overwhelmingly favored the GOP.  So in 2012 the voted for PBO by nearly 7% and voted in the most liberal Congresswomen by 6.5%, which are pretty wide margins.  But yet they were able to take back control of the Assembly and State Senate by fairly large margins.  It seems to me conclusion to be drawn is that this was aided by the redistricting.  Otherwise I don't think you would have had such a large disparity between the Statewide votes and State Legislature votes.  

 

With this being said the GOP (and far right GOP) has pretty much fully control of the state government.  The budget passed recently is quite a joke, and now they are passing mandatory ultrasounds for abortions.  This is clear right wing social engineering.  

 

There is nothing that can be done for Wisconsin, for now.  But the agenda of the Governor has not worked, as his number one priority is/was jobs and Wisconsin ranks nearly last in most job and economic growth categories.  It is a cautionary tale, as I am sure the pendulum will swing back to the left.  What really is needed and I think something would more fairly represent the State of Wisconsin is a better way of redistricting, take it out of the hands of the politicians and give it to a nonpartisan organization.  

 

But that is just me and the State I live in.  I am sure most of you don't really care and really why should you.  

 

But yeah, guns apparently suck or something.