2013 Baseball season!!!

[tongue-tied lightning]

wha ? Pujols & Hamilton didnt work out ?

 

is Elsbury worth what he got ?

 

I think the Mets deal with Grandy is actually pretty good. 60 mil is nothing these days.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

Word is Jay-Z almost blew it when he backed out of a nine year/$225M deal. It really pissed off the president of the Mariners. They should have let that door stay shut at that point. Owners have short term memories when it comes to lengthy contracts.

so not only did they not shut the door, they came back and outbid themselves to finish the deal. 9/225 was already more than cano was getting from anyone else so they more than likely had him at that point. i guess an extra year on top of an already ridiculous contract isnt that big a deal, but yikes

[Guest Jules]

wha ? Pujols & Hamilton didnt work out ?

 

is Elsbury worth what he got ?

 

I think the Mets deal with Grandy is actually pretty good. 60 mil is nothing these days.

He's 33.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

It's really interesting hearing the Yankee fans and  pundit acting like jilted lovers over Robinson Cano. "We didn't want him anyway. He'll be too old at the end."

Pshhh. 

Jacoby Ellsbury is going to be 30. He has 65 career homeruns and two of the last five years he missed a majority of the season.

 

Robinson Cano is a year older. He has hit 204 career homeruns at what is traditionally not a power position (2b).  He plays every freaking day (averaging 152 games a year over a nine year career).

 

For you real baseball nerds,  Cano has a career WAR of 45.2 averaging 5 WAR a year over his career (including a tough rookie year). Ellsbury has a career WAR of 21 averaging 3 WAR a year.

 

The Yankees would have been better off bringing Gardner back and doing whatever it took to sign Cano. Yeah, it's too much money, but that's the price of doing business in MLB these days.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Which player and his contract would they rather have, Hamilton or Fielder? I'll take Prince's pounds over Josh's baggage any year. I don't give a screw what color they are.

 

Apparently it's not about Hamilton. Listen, I understood the Hamilton decision (and thank god they didn't resign him) and the Kinsler/Fielder deal looks like a real win win situation. Not only did the Rangers have a logjam of Major league infielders, they are loaded with middle infield prospects that could be ready by 2015. 

I'm a baseball guy. The only white I care about in the game is the color of home uniforms and the ball. That's why I was gobsmacked when I saw all the seemingly racially based comments. 

 

Gentry for Choice is an interesting move for both the Rangers and the A's. Gentry is a journeyman who will get exposed as an everyday player. Good glove, great wheels, no power and a .280 bat. He's a good role player that you want on your squad, but Oakland traded their best OF prospect. Who fleeced who here? The Rangers have apparently penciled Choice in as the LF for 2014. I'm glad the Rangers aren't standing pat and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle again (like the Phillies have done). They have gotten younger with Profar, Choice and Fielder added to the lineup. While the last couple of years they have moved prospects from rent-a-pitchers (Lee in 2010, Adams and Uehara in 2011, Dempster in 2012 and Garza in 2013), the minors are still pretty well stocked. Yeah, they should have held on to Chris Davis, but sometimes a player needs a change of scenery and hearing different voices to have it all click.

 

Daniels does seem to avoid making the stupid deal (Avoiding resigning a desperately declining Josh Hamilton was the best non-move ever made by the Rangers). But since that terrible night in October of 2011, the Rangers have lost Wilson, Napoli, Young, Kinsler, Murphy, Hamilton, Cruz and one of their prospects of the future (Michael Olt). They have added Darvish, Rios and...well that's kinda it. They tried some stopgap measures with AJ and Berkman, but this team has a power shortage that we haven't seen in Texas since the early 70's.

 

Man...how long until pitchers and catchers report?

[Oil Can Boyd]

Man...how long until pitchers and catchers report?

70

[The High Heat]

Roy Halladay retired today. He was the best pitcher in the game just three years ago. He's 36. Teams tend to overlook this reality when handing out long-term contracts to guys in their 30's.

 

 

LaRussa, Cox, and Torre were elected to the HOF. Steinbrenner, Billy Martin, and Marvin Miller were not. Don't think Martin should get in, don't know about Steinbrenner's worthiness, but Miller ought to be elected.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Roy Halladay retired today. He was the best pitcher in the game just three years ago. He's 36. Teams tend to overlook this reality when handing out long-term contracts to guys in their 30's.

 

 

LaRussa, Cox, and Torre were elected to the HOF. Steinbrenner, Billy Martin, and Marvin Miller were not. Don't think Martin should get in, don't know about Steinbrenner's worthiness, but Miller ought to be elected.

Before I go into an in depth defense of Billy Martin, would you like to explain your position?

[The High Heat]

Before I go into an in depth defense of Billy Martin, would you like to explain your position?

I know Steinbrenner mercilessly jerked Martin around, knowing how desperately he wanted to be part of the Yankees, but behavior issues cost him his early jobs too. He only won one World Series. He did take Oakland back to the playoffs, but in doing so, he ruined the careers of his good, young pitchers by letting them complete most of their games. I know Billy Martin had a winning record, but the rude needed help, and knew how to wear out his welcome quickly.

[Lammycat]

Billy Martin is an on-the-fence candidate for the HOF. He had an average career as a player and an above average career as a manager. Regardless of his abusive/abrasive demeanor, the guy was able to turn teams around. However, I don't see the accolades/titles that a lot of HOF managers have. Beyond being a colorful character, he was not much more than a little above average manager, not a "great" manager.

 

Whatever, though. The HOF gets a little more absurd every year with who they deem worthy and who they keep out. The BBWAA take themselves a little too serious/powerful.

[dagwave]

Trumbo to dbags.

 

Guess that makes Goldenschmidt full time OF?

[dagwave]

also: regarding the Cox/ Torre/ LaRussa landslide,,,,, iIm a big fan of all three, but HOF? just like that? In my mind it lends some credence to the the Biggio argument.

 

Longevity wins out? Hall of Grinders wing might be in the works in Cooperstown ( shout out to awesome on site breweryUMMsomething show in summer 2012, boyyyyyyyy).

[The High Heat]

P.S. Mark Prior finally retired.

[Lammycat]

Who's "Mark Prior"?

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Who's "Mark Prior"?

Am I a bad person that I laughed at this?

Trumbo to dbags.

 

Guess that makes Goldenschmidt full time OF?

I think they're expecting Trumbo to play left.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I know Steinbrenner mercilessly jerked Martin around, knowing how desperately he wanted to be part of the Yankees, but behavior issues cost him his early jobs too. He only won one World Series. He did take Oakland back to the playoffs, but in doing so, he ruined the careers of his good, young pitchers by letting them complete most of their games. I know Billy Martin had a winning record, but the rude needed help, and knew how to wear out his welcome quickly.

Excellent points.

My perspective on Billy came from the 1974 Rangers. He took a team that was a glorified AAA team in 1972 and 1973 and had them in contention for the AL West (in 1974). He did love the veterans...hoping to catch lightening in a bottle.

 

He was an unredeemable alcoholic and more than a little bit of an asshole; but he could turn a team around.

[dagwave]

Am I a bad person that I laughed at this?

 

I think they're expecting Trumbo to play left.

no, you probably feel somewhat similar about the partially redeemed Kerry Wood, but not so much about the A's rotation that collectively blew their arms out.

 

yes- my bad, especially for someone who professes knowledge of the game!

[The High Heat]

*supposed to say "the dude needed help" I think I was autocorrected*

 

 

Martin let Steve McCatty toss a 14 inning (something he allowed often), 207 pitch complete game. Rick Langford threw 22 consecutive completes in 1980. Langford was efficient with his pitches, but was a sinker/slider pitcher. His elbow lasted about as long as Martin's stint in Oakland after that.

[dagwave]

Got it.

 

"the dude needed help" I think I was autocorrected*

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I was smiling at lammycat's comment

[Lammycat]

Heh.

 

As much as Martin was known for being able to turn a team around, he was also known for ruining careers of young pitchers by over-working them.

[Winston Legthigh]

The Tigers got worse every year he was there.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Heh.

 

As much as Martin was known for being able to turn a team around, he was also known for ruining careers of young pitchers by over-working them.

 Yeah...but it WAS a different game and a different era then. There are a lot of 50 and 60 year old former pitchers who can't raise their pitching arm to comb their hair.

Back in the day, Pitch counts were for sissies. And any pitching coach who took a different approach to conditioning, training and pitch counts was called 'eccentric'. All anybody remember about Tom HOuse is he had his pitchers throw a football in their training. He was a huge proponant of limiting the number of pitches for younger pitchers...

It was a different world. Four man rotations and ten man pitching staffs.

Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan revolutionized the game and probably saved countless careers.

[The High Heat]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/mlb-rules-committee-votes-to-end-home-plate-collisions?ymd=20131211&content_id=64598138&vkey=news_mlb

 

MLB votes to ban home plate collisions, still working on an expanded replay format.

[Lammycat]

 Yeah...but it WAS a different game and a different era then. There are a lot of 50 and 60 year old former pitchers who can't raise their pitching arm to comb their hair.

Back in the day, Pitch counts were for sissies. And any pitching coach who took a different approach to conditioning, training and pitch counts was called 'eccentric'. All anybody remember about Tom HOuse is he had his pitchers throw a football in their training. He was a huge proponant of limiting the number of pitches for younger pitchers...

It was a different world. Four man rotations and ten man pitching staffs.

Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan revolutionized the game and probably saved countless careers.

In the mid-70s to early 80s, Martin was notorious for abusing his pitchers' arms. Most teams were not pushing their pitchers to pitch complete games as they were in the previous era by this time. It's thought that Catfish Hunter's career ended prematurely due to how hard Martin ran him on the mound. And, while pitchers still did pitch complete games, from time to time, it was no where near as often as Martin had his pitchers do it. His first couple of years in Oakland showcase this, and by his 3rd/ last year there he had pitchers with toasted arms and they sucked.