jc4prez

No but none of the other halloween albums featured much jamming, I think Trey is playing really well.

Currently listening and all I can say is they sound great. If your home you should be tuned in sounds great.

If I've learned anything about VC and Wilco fans in general, it's that we're a fairly charitble bunch. Given that the multiple voluntary donations to Doctors Without Borders, the Guthrie foundation and whatever else there was involved no direct contact with any member of Wilco, yet still did amazingly well, I'd say you don't really have to worry about VCers tendency to give. Would it hurt the Second City fundraiser? Probably, but it's not like we were donating in droves before the Living Room Shows either.

Yeah we are a charitable bunch, its just like I was saying this event is so much more then Jeff Tweedy singing a few songs we've all heard.

Ditto. Where's the drama? These auctioned shows will probably raise 100K this year.

I'm not saying there is a problem with those who get the shows, no drama there that I know of, they always seem respectful. I was more talking about the shit on here and the number of people who look at this as "there chance to get up close and personal with Jeff", I mean how many of these people would be coming if there was no appearance by Jeff.

ETA: I also meant that it becomes a big production for the folks at second city, where as the other 22 hours are fairly low key.

I for one will not be surprised when Jeff stops coming and just opts to make a private donation. Too much drama which ends up taking away from the purpose of the whole event. Even the whole ticketing thing last year made it more about the fact that Jeff was playing then the purpose of the event.

I'm not an all nighter but I do stop in two or three times in the 24 hour period and every year its relatively the same crowd that stays for the whole event. Each year the crowd gets bigger for Jeffs segment. Which is a shame because the event as a whole is fantastic.

I bet Toby Keith is busy right now scribbling the lyrics to his future hit, "The CIA Can Torture You To This Song (You Arab Bastard)."

Sad because its probably true

Your comment about "Bush's little torture scheme" sheds light on where you stand on this issue. I don't think we will resolve our differing viewpoints on ViaChicago. I am not going to buy into a belief that our goverment was setting out to torture people just because. I'm sorry if I'm suppose to feel differently. Were mistakes made? I'm sure they were. Was our goverment on a wholesale level setting out to do evil things on an organized level? I'm not going there.

Look you still said they were caught in the act, I don't think anyone at Guantanamo was caught in the act, I don't think our government even claims this.

That place sucks.

You got that right, you don't even know the half of it.

It is a song. (Not a bad one at that)

 

The UN doesn't hold a lot of credibility for some people (harking back to my previous comments about differing opinions). Someone much smarter than myself could point out the UN's own inconsistencies when it comes to human rights violations.

You are right it is a song, but you ignored the "played loudly or repeat" part. Hell i was working at a pizza place for the past year with a playlist that didn't change, same songs every day sometimes at the same time. This was driving me nuts, i even stopped listening to wilco for a year because i heard so many of their songs EVERYDAY. Homemade Pizza Co. is not Guantanamo, under those conditions I can't even imagine what would happen.

You know, the whole discussion was built on the premise that we all believe that this particular issue constitutes torture. I for one don't, and was willing to put that aside. So, if I sound flip about it, it may be because playing loud music pales compared to what has been done in the name of torture in this world.

 

Now the broader arguement is about other forms of torture that I assume most here believe the US is taking part in. We can argue that all day, but this isn't the place.

 

So all I will say, is that there is probably a percentage (who knows exactly) that don't believe the US is torturing people down at Guantamo. Their opinion isn't uneducated or ill informed or cold hearted, it is just an opinion built on their own belief system. So once again, If I sound flip it is because I don't believe in the merits of this arguement.

What do you think the effect on ones mental health would be if they were forced to listen to "Crazy" by Britney Spears over and over at loud volumes or the sesame street theme song? I believe the article states that the use of music in this manner is considered torture by the UN Convention against torture.

What happened?

Nothing important just some torture, the overthrow of some sovereign nations, the killing of innocent, the destruction of civil rights and some artists were upset about how their music was being used. But don't mind me by all means carry on with whatever you are doing to avoid work.

 

I don't know if it should be a law or anything but certainly the artists have the right to be outraged. It's torture for god's sake.

EXACTLY. I find it amazing people can joke about this when its being done in their name so that they can go to the mall.

Yes, but is your problem that the govt isn't paying licensing fees? Or that the govt is doing it in the first place? I assume it's the latter, not the former. And if it's the latter, I am pointing out that you are starting down a slippery slope.

Well, my problem is like you said the latter. I realize though that are government is not to interested in stopping their policy of torturing suspects. So if their is a way through our current laws to throw roadblocks up we as citizens should be doing it. Again like I said I'm not a copyright attorney so I don't even know if a license for "play" can even be denied. Even if it could the government would simply go out a record their own tracks to torture people, I'm sure Ted Nugent is just waiting for the call.

My real point is this is a disgusting abuse of not only human rights (on part of those being tortured) but of the artists involved. If I had recorded one of the songs being used in this matter I think it would forever change my view of the art I had created. I could even see this effecting listeners.

Would there be the same outrage if Garth Brooks' music was blasted loudly?

No, I imagine most Garth Brooks fans support the war on terror.

Would Oprah have been equally offended if they had forced the prisoners to listen her show over and over?

No, Oprah supports the war on terror.

If a Top-40 station was played, would every artist of every song played on the station have a right to be outraged?

Yes.

If Jay Z found out that ESPN broadcaster/wife-cheater Steve Phillips was making love with his mistress to his music, should Jay Z state his disgust with that?

Only if the music was downloaded via a file sharing site.

If a doctor performs abortions while listening to John Denver, should Denver's estate demand the doctor play something else?

This is only reasonable analogy. Except for the fact the torturers were breaking the law, where as performing an abortion is not illegal.

Gotcha. So you are analogizing it to a restaurant playing music while its patrons eat? And restaurants have to pay royalties to play the music? I hadn't thought of it that way. It's an interesting way of framing the issue, but I don't know if it really holds up in this context.

 

Either way, if this is a FOIA request, it's just a request for information. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, the artists do after this.

 

What about a strip club? You start down a slippery slope when you start to question who/when/how the music gets played.

Aren't stip clubs supposed to be paying licensing fees. I only took one entertainment law class in college and my understanding was that any business using music needed to be paying a licensing fee.I realize many business don't pay or register but I thought that was the "law". Like I said I could be wrong.

I didnt look into this at all, but based on a quick glance at what you posted, it looks like a FOIA request. All that means is that they are looking to have information disclosed publicly. That's it. This is about exposing information that is otherwise not being disclosed.

 

There is no way that I can possibly imagine the musicians making any worthwhile argument, legal or otherwise, that would actually dictate how their music is played, when it is played, or how loudly it is played. Fair use is a concept used to defend against copyright infringement. If this music was purchased legally, I dont see what this is other than a lot of headlines with no teeth. I suppose the artists might hope that by exposing the practice, the authorities would be shamed into stopping? Maybe I don't understand your fair use point? Or maybe I need to read more about this and not just shoot from the hip.

 

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

its is only a request, I was just curious if their were any legal implications. This isn't simply buying a record and playing it for a friend, its using it to "help" your business.

Many people on here know I have serious beef with the lips. Outside of that musically this is a fantastic record, way better then "At War With The Mystics".

I'm sure we have some lawyers on here so maybe someone can answer. Is this a breech of fair use? Granted no money is being made but is this any different then a restaurant subjecting patrons to smooth jazz (which they need a license to play).

For one do not not speak your mind because you don't believe your view is popular. Anyone who attacks for thinking differently rather then talking is a fool. I for one wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion and that is fine. For example you mention grieving families but fail to make a connection with those being tortured and those grieving. But this isn't the important thing. I was not trying to have a conversation about US policy, if I was I would have placed this in another forum.

The question I have is over how art is used by others who did not create it. Regardless of what you feel the intent of US foreign policy, I'm sure you make the connection that the musicians intent and the use of this music are not one and the same. This is what I wanted to discuss. I also wanted to discuss the use of art as weapon.

From the New York Times:

Musicians Protest Tunes Used in Interrogations

By Bernie Becker

 

This time at least, musicians Tom Morello and Trent Reznor want the music turned down.

 

Mr. Morello, formerly of Rage Against the Machine, and Mr. Reznor, of Nine Inch Nails, are among a group of musicians who have joined the National Campaign to Close Guantánamo and are supporting the group’s efforts to declassify records dealing with the use of music in detainee interrogations.

 

Previously declassified records and other reports have already documented some of the uses of loud music, including the playing of recordings by Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine. With the help of the National Security Archive, this group hopes to learn more about the use of music as an interrogation technique by filing Freedom of Information Act requests on Thursday with a host of government agencies — including the Defense Department, C.I.A. and F.B.I.

 

Mr. Morello, R.E.M. and The Roots said in statements that they were outraged that music had been used in interrogations and called for the closure of the detention center at Guantanamo. Other musicians backing the effort include Pearl Jam, Jackson Browne and Rosanne Cash.

 

“We have spent the past 30 years supporting causes related to peace and justice – to now learn that some of our friends’ music may have been used as part of the torture tactics without their consent or knowledge, is horrific,” R.E.M. said in a statement. “It’s anti-American, period.”

 

A White House spokesman indicated that loud music was one of the techniques tossed away during a policy shift on interrogations announced shortly after the president’s inauguration. And according to The Associated Press, a C.I.A. spokesman said, when the music was used, it was not employed “for punitive purposes — and at levels far below a live rock band.”

 

Aaron Harison of Keep America Safe — the recently formed group that accuses President Obama’s administration of “turning away from the policies that have kept us safe” — said the group would not comment on the new move.

 

Jayne Huckerby of the International Human Rights Clinic at the New York University School of Law, which represents two former detainees who faced music as an interrogation technique, said the Thursday filings could increase the understanding of the “psychological impact this had on the individuals that were subjected to it.”

 

“We’re far away from understanding” the extent music was used in interrogations, added Ms. Huckerby, who also pointed to a United Nations finding that the “sounding of loud music for prolonged periods” violated its Convention Against Torture.

 

According to Ms. Huckerby, Mohamed Bashmilah, one of the detainees represented by her group, has indicated that both “excruciatingly loud western rap and Arabic music” and “deafening music” were used while he was detained. Recordings by Metallica, Britney Spears and even from Sesame Street have also been employed as interrogation techniques, according to previous reports.

 

Kate Doyle, senior analyst for the National Security Archive, said that previous filings had not concentrated specifically on the use of music in interrogations.

 

“We expect to obtain documents that name bands and songs that were used in detainee interrogations,” she said. “The very small handful that we’ve already seen came up accidentally during requests that we’re not targeting music.”

 

Still, it’s hard to say how long it will take before Thursday’s filing produces any documents. Some of the petitioned agencies, Ms. Doyle said, have a history of being more responsive than others to information requests.

 

The filing comes two days after a group, the National Campaign to Close Guantanamo, released its first advertisement, which criticized Congress for standing in the way of efforts to close the detention center.

Curious what people thought about this. Its disturbing to think how many people were enjoying this music while it was being used for such awful purposes. I can't even began to imagine how I would feel if I created something to express myself and then found it being used in such an awful way.

So did anyone score tickets?

I still think there's gonna be a "100th" album that is the killer......

This is it. Why else would they have stopped at 99, too bad the 100th album is:

notice how it looks like the gallery of albums.

HOW WAS TORTOISE?

I'm surprised no one has said anything. Also would be surprised if glenn or nels dont sit in. When I saw Jeff Parker at the green mill a few months back my friend tapped my girlfriend on the shoulder and whispered something in her ear, this was followed by her repeating the statement in my ear, I then turn around and notice Nels Cline is sitting next to me.

I think my girlfriend feels the same way. In fact, I think she's come pretty close to doing just that, once or twice.

Thats funny because my girlfriend saw glenn solo a year or two ago and glenn wouldn't stop staring at her, she said it made her a bit uncomfortable.

You still haven't described what this "emotional intensity" is supposed to be.

You may not be able to define "emotional intensity" but I think there is something to bad said about playing shot in the arm 300 times in five years and it then loosing something. Right after Ghost is born wilco featured a fairly fresh lineup, which is what I think brought more energy to those show (04-05), which in my mind were the best sets I've seen wilco play.

From a personal perspective I just don't see how you can "bring it" every night if your playing the same songs the same way. I know Nels has the talent, so would it be too hard for the band to stretch impossible Germany out? Or maybe do "Shot in the Arm" differently.

I think there is something to be said for the fact that many people will only see one show every few tours. But like I said they can still play a song and bring something new or do it a bit differently for those who have seen these songs (handshake, IATBYH, Walkin, Shot) 30x.

Well if you're going to twist my arm... Cinci's basically Chicago. Would certainly be worth the trip.

 

Let's hope for that Bowie!

Damn didn't realize cinci was as close as Detroit, still can't make though do to work. I may be having my schedule changed at work.....if i do Detroit could happen right now i'm planning on philly night two.