jhc Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 That's not the conclusion I was drawing. I just notice a lot of people seem to hate this side of Wilco and would prefer Wilco do another YHF which isn't going to happen. It bothers me about a lot of bands' fans who want them to always sound like their favorite album. People can dig what they want--I'm expressing my feelings to those who don't want Wilco to change. I'm happy for Wilco to change - I love AM and I love AGIB. I love Walken and I love On and On and On. I love a good rock song, and would be thrilled if they brought back a simple 3 chord rocker like Dreamer. That said, I think this song is pretty awful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
myboyblue Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I haven't listened to it yet but I think it's the worst song ever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nun4db Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Just wanted to weigh in on this discussion. First off, I strongly dislike this song, as well as "Walken," "The Thanks I Get," and the other couple of new songs I heard on the last tour. This is not becuase I do not like a good rock song, or especially a good Wilco rock song. Hell, "Monday" is what got me hooked on this band. I also do not expect the band to make another Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. For one thing, it's a very different band from the one that made that record. Still, I can't help but feel like Jeff Tweedy's songwriting has taken a dive since A Ghost Is Born. The most obvious indication of this is the lyrics. These new songs don't seem to have much substance to them at all. Compare the lyrics of "Walken" to, say, "Jesus, Etc." or "She's a Jar" or even "Misunderstood." "The Thanks I Get" seems like such a generic, "I love you good, why don't you love me?" kind of song. I don't know... This is a hard argument. It's not like I think these songs are completely worthless, but it's impossible not to compare them to Jeff and Wilco's previous work, which up until now was constantly growing and expanding. Now it seems to be deflating a bit, if this live stuff is any indication. I have to wonder if the writing and recording process has been any different with the Nels/Pat phase of the band than it has in the past. It certainly doesn't seem like they have taken very much time off in the past couple years. It has to be hard to write music of real substance when all your time is spent on the road. Also, I can't help but wonder if Jeff's songwriting has been affected by going through rehab and no longer having drug problems. I mean, it's probably a safe assumption that drugs influenced some of that earlier work; he was writing some pretty abstract lyrics for the last few albums. But now, in this post-rehab period, he seems happier and goofier and just more into rockin'. Which is great! Don't get me wrong. I'd certainly prefer he be healthy for his own well-being and that of his family. Well I'm kinda ramblin here. I just don't particularly care for what I have heard so far, and I'm kinda worried about the next album. But who knows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Damn bots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nun4db Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Oh, and one more thing. Yeah, let people have their opinions. Let's not jump to conclusions and make generalizations about someone just because they like or dislike one thing. And let's especially not call someone names (like "dickwad loser" for instance) just because they happen to have a negative opinion about something this band has done. One of the most frustrating things about big music fans is the idea that you must LOVE EVERYTHING your favorite band does, and you must never say anything negative about them, or else you are not a true fan. Wilco is my favorite band. Period. Because they are my favorite band I pay a great deal of attention to their career, and I spend a great deal of time absorbing their music and interpreting it and taking away meaning from it and applying it to my own experiences. I believe that part of loving a band that much is being willing to admit when you don't like something they have done. Being so invested and connected to their music you should be able to tell immediately when something doesn't live up to their potential. Okay I'm done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I haven't listened to it yet but I think it's the worst song ever. that's only because you haven't heard the newest new song that they'll be playing next week. It's called "Get Off My Fucking Stage, Bitch" It is a straightforward get off the stage song. And it's horrible. For all the reasons already stated above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oceanman Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Hey nun4tdb,have you gave What Light a chance.......................................Closest thing I have ever heard that equals to a Dylan tune in the best of years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blue and Green Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Thanks for the new tune! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a_quiet_domino Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 First off, I strongly dislike this song, as well as "Walken," "The Thanks I Get," and the other couple of new songs I heard on the last tour. Walken is not a new song. Thanks I Get was written a while ago for Jack Johnson. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parisisstale Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Walken is not a new song. Thanks I Get was written a while ago for Jack Johnson. Jack Johnson How bout Solomon Burke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a_quiet_domino Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Jack Johnson How bout Solomon Burke. My bad. Still woozy from the show last night. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Walken is not a new song. Thanks I Get was written a while ago for Jack Johnson. If it doesn't yet appear on an album, but has appeared since the last and possibly will be 'albumed' in April, I think it qualifies as a new song. And does it matter that they wrote a song for someone else, as long as they wrote them? Neither of these factors should weigh into peoples' reactions of new material. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a_quiet_domino Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Neither of these factors should weigh into peoples' reactions of new material. If people are going to criticize "new" material or "the direction the band is heading," then they should at least be speaking about material that has been written recently and that indicates the future of the band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
You Can Be The Stone Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 >>Still, I can't help but feel like Jeff Tweedy's songwriting has taken a dive since A Ghost Is Born. The most obvious indication of this is the lyrics. These new songs don't seem to have much substance to them at all. Compare the lyrics of "Walken" to, say, "Jesus, Etc." or "She's a Jar" or even "Misunderstood." "The Thanks I Get" seems like such a generic, "I love you good, why don't you love me?" kind of song. I don't know... I agree with what someone said over the summer; I'll probably butcher the quote, but something like sometimes it's easy to confuse simplicity with shallowness, and complexity with depth. As far as I'm concerned, most of the lyrics before "Ghost" don't even matter. Summerteeth for example. I'm sure the album was a vital part to Tweedy's evolution as a lyricist, but even I could read "Tropic of Cancer", find some words that contrast, and them together in a shock-value-non-sequiter way. I'm not saying one way of lyric writing is better then the other, I'm just trying to say there are just as many misses when Tweedy was writing abstract poetry as well. (And when did people start sticking up for "Ghost is born" all of a sudden? I love it! =) >>This is a hard argument. It's not like I think these songs are completely worthless, but it's impossible not to compare them to Jeff and Wilco's previous work, which up until now was constantly growing and expanding. Now it seems to be deflating a bit, if this live stuff is any indication. It's hard to take these songs in their own context, because it's such an unpredictable artistic progression than the last few albums. I'm just going to put faith in Jeff; I'm sure he hasn't last the ability to write abstract poetry and songs filled with angst; they were all over "Loose Fur". This is most likely a conscious decision to make more mainstream songs on the record. > I chalk up the lyrics to Jeff cleaning up and all, but also to just plain content and maturity; not all art has to come from pain. Maybe there is some adult-contemp cheesiness to some of the songs, but if Jeff was nearing his forties and writing about some heartbreak in his twenties, it'd just be disturbing. I look at the music from this perpsective, and have learned to accept it, and enjoy it much more. "What Light" is the best example; on surface level, it's very cheesy, but beneath that, I can find an enormous richness and humanity to it that'll be more timeless than "I dreamed about killing you again last night". Ultimately, even if this album turns out to be a bad experiment, I think ultimately, between Tweedy being more content, and the synergetic nature of collaboration between this unit that we've been hearing about, it's at least going to be a huge step in the right direction; eventually, this could pave the way for stuff like Tweedy's own "Remember the Mountain Bed"; wonderful poetic lyrics, yet not filled with alienation, angst, instead, far more timeless issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Not all great songs have crazy allusions, deep references and more imagery than a monkey in a tree. See: Beatles. Anyone, pretty much. In addition, if you think about it, this post-AGIB era is basically the rebirth of Tweedy. He's finding his non-drug writing chops again, so just give the man some time. i.e. Pat Martino was crazy at the guitar, but then he was gravely ill, and hd some amnesia problem and had to learn how to play guitar again. And look now! He's better than he was before. Extend this to Tweedy, and you realize that not everything can remain the same and not everything gets worse over time. I can bet this song is a hit ten years from now. Hindsight is 20/20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Somnambulist Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I heard it for the first time on the 9:30 Club broadcast and I thought it had the same kind of vibe as a John Lennon solo tune. I can't think of a specific one but just the pissed off rock and roll how do you sleep vibe. I'll listen to whatever Jeff and the boys come up with for the next album and reserve my judgement until I sit with it for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 So I guess ten years from now, people will be comparing Wilco to Aerosmith and saying, "Wow, they were much better when there were drugs involved." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 So I guess ten years from now, people will be comparing Wilco to Aerosmith and saying, "Wow, they were much better when there were drugs involved." nah... things are always better without drugs. some songs should be taken based on how hard they rock musically and the lyrics come second, to me, this is one of those songs... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 If people are going to criticize "new" material or "the direction the band is heading," then they should at least be speaking about material that has been written recently and that indicates the future of the band. How is a year ago not recently? Walken = post-AGIB, Nels era = current era The fact that it was not only written post-AGIB but also that they keep playing it is indicative of their direction, I think. And I LOVE Walken, for the record. nah... things are always better without drugs. Most of the artists you like have written/recorded/performed some of their best material under the influence, so to speak. I'm not declaring it causal, but I do think that problems that either cause or stem from substance abuse can greatly influence the kind of music one writes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighFives Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I'm confused as to how walken is not new. its the least new out of the new songs yeah but its still a new one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 If people are going to criticize "new" material or "the direction the band is heading," then they should at least be speaking about material that has been written recently and that indicates the future of the band. One year safely falls under recently, ESPECIALLY if it hasn't appeared as an album. Either way (including Walken or not), this album is looking sharp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhc Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I'm confused as to how walken is not new. its the least new out of the new songs yeah but its still a new one. Of course it's a new one. And a good one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
You Can Be The Stone Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 On a side note, I think in the future, we'll probably be getting experimental Tweedy saved for the Loose Fur records Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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