Analogman Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 ROBERT LEVINEPosted Dec 26, 2007 1:27 PM David Bendeth, a producer who works with rock bands like Hawthorne Heights and Paramore, knows that the albums he makes are often played through tiny computer speakers by fans who are busy surfing the Internet. So he's not surprised when record labels ask the mastering engineers who work on his CDs to crank up the sound levels so high that even the soft parts sound loud. Over the past decade and a half, a revolution in recording technology has changed the way albums are produced, mixed and mastered Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lynch Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I read this article on the net as well. It is kind of sad the way music is going. There is such a huge difference between vinyl and digital. I think for the most part people's perception of sound "quality" is more than a little skewed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I read this article on the net as well. It is kind of sad the way music is going. There is such a huge difference between vinyl and digital. I think for the most part people's perception of sound "quality" is more than a little skewed.It isn't going to matter if a shitty sounding song is on vinyl, it is the same shitty sounding song. Likewise older more balanced (and aired out) music from the past sounds perfectly fine on CD if remastered for the medium. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 As evidenced by the great sound on the Hendrix and Byrds re-masters. I notice some of the new cds I have bought over the last year are so loud that I have to have the volume way down when I am listening to them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 As evidenced by the great sound on the Hendrix and Byrds re-masters. I notice some of the new cds I have bought over the last year are so loud that I have to have the volume way down when I am listening to them.Exactly. Whenever this kinda stupid argument about the superiority of vinyl comes up, you have to realize that those older records sounded great because they "sounded great" not necessarily because of the medium they are on. It is exactly the reason the Beach Boys and others (strangely I just got done listening to an old (obviously) vinyl copy of Surfer Girl I found in a resale shop for 50 cent) listened to their records on shitty little car and transistor radio speakers to make sure they spoke to their listeners as they would hear the music. I suppose the obvious fact is that lots of artists also figure they are going to be listened to on shitty little iPod earphones (as the article indicates) and most records now are so layered, you can't tell who is playing what and actually half the time it doesn't sound like anything is being played by a real person anyway. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 A lot of it, not all of, but a lot of the loud 'volume' has to do with getting a good signal to noise ratio. I'd take a good s/n any day, even if it meant my music was a bit louder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Yes, but I find most things too bright - no bottom end. Or, at least, that is how I refer to it. I envision a day when some people will be encamped in the woods like the people in Fahrenheit 451. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pecan_Pie Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hey this is just a copy and paste off of an e-mail I sent out to my community radio station's (KVNF, check us out!) mailing list. For those of you who don't know (which is probably everybody) The Slideshow is just the name of the show that I do on KVNF. I think this whole discussion was based on the same article as this too, so enjoy. Thought I'd just chime in on this discussion as this is the kind of thing that interests me greatly with music. I am one of those damn audiophiles who just can't seem to get enough of his record collection. I buy new records now on heavy Vinyl and love it, you can hear everything going on in the studio (even on my little bookshelf speakers!). Along with this I also bought myself a Zune 80gb for Christmas. And today on The Slideshow, I had a great deal of fun using my Zune to do the show on. I also have a great time using my Zune with the Car Adapter thing. The greatest thing for me about an MP3 player is the convience of not having to carry 50+ cds around everywhere I go, other than this the factors seem to go in favor of carry 50 cds around.The last couple years I've used my PC as my main stereo, ripping all of my music onto it. I encode to 192kps MP3s and don't mind the quality on those that much at all. However, it does become a problem if I turn my speakers on the computer up (it's probably the speaker though..) and the sound gets funky. I've also been listening to the Zune on my stereo, it doesn't sound half bad really. But everytime I really stop and think about what I'm doing I feel ashamed of myself. I'm letting the world of portability get to me over the world of beautiful layered sounds of a record and a recording studio. But it also makes me think about what we're doing to music. The idea of portable music is wonderful, and I think people should really use it.But what really is music is what an MP3 makes me think. Producers put a lot of working into making an album sound good, and people just go and ruin it with MP3s. But where is music really ruined?? Is it in the sound quality? Or is it in the way that people listen to it? If people actually listened to the music would it even matter? Wouldn't things just clear themselves up? So I think the real question at hand here is not whether to use MP3s or not, but whether to try and teach the newest generation how to really listen to and appreciate music. Being a member of this newest generation at 17, it's rather unsettling to be growing up and realizing that in 20 years people aren't even going to know how to listen to music. So, maybe as a community radio station we can help get more people (young and old) to try and really appreciate and listen to music. That way we can straighten out things like Britany Spears and MP3s in one action. I will give MP3s one thing though... they're better for the environment (So is Bittorrent though!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Yeah, it really sucks, but I'm happy for the people that are working against this defilement of hi-fi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I listen to LPs, CDs, and MP3s. None of them are the devil. It's the artists/producers that can kill a record by having no dynamics before anyone has a chance to compress it themselves. Along with auto-tuning and piecing edits together every two seconds, even if they have a good song they've recorded nothing remarkable. Luckily most good bands today get wise to this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I listen to LPs, CDs, and MP3s. None of them are the devil. It's the artists/producers that can kill a record by having no dynamics before anyone has a chance to compress it themselves. Along with auto-tuning and piecing edits together every two seconds, even if they have a good song they've recorded nothing remarkable. Luckily most good bands today get wise to this. x 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh Rich Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 This compressions and loundess is quite apparent between new and old CD's. Listening to Morrissey's "Vauxhall and I" the record breathes, but also you have to turn the volume up on the stereo a lot more than you would on his latest album. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I listen to LPs, CDs, and MP3s. None of them are the devil. It's the artists/producers that can kill a record by having no dynamics before anyone has a chance to compress it themselves. Along with auto-tuning and piecing edits together every two seconds, even if they have a good song they've recorded nothing remarkable. Luckily most good bands today get wise to this.Absolutely...give Joe Henry's new CD "Civilians" a listen. The guy knows how to make records so it doesn't matter what format it is on, it breaths. If you stuff a cut with noise it is going to sound like noise...hell the Spector "wall of sound" cuts sound simple compared to what is being pushed out today.... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Welsh Rich Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I wonder though if this is becoming a "default setting" when producing / engineering albums? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Here's a lengthy and sort of technical analysis of the LOUDER IS BETTER phenomenon using Rush's "Vapor Trails" as an example. http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/E...47/Default.aspx Over the Limit Location: BlogsProRec ArticlesRip Rowan Posted by: Rip Rowan Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:00 PM I Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I wonder though if this is becoming a "default setting" when producing / engineering albums?I think this is some unfortunate truth to this. I have trouble listening to much new music. And its not entirely that I'm not interested in the music being made, but something about it (the production?) is making it unlistenable to me. This is new territory for me, since I have never really considered myself much of an audiophile. I'm going to use an example that might make some people mad, but one thing that has bothered me recently me is that although I love Greg Dulli and the old Afghan Whigs records, I hate hate hate the Twilight Singers records. On the surface, there isn't a whole lot of stylistic difference--but I can't stand the sound of them. I'm sure I could find far more egregious examples of studio fuckery if I looked around some, but since I'm not listening to Avril and Gwen, this is my frame of reference. The vocals sound fucked with and there is a sheen over everything and there is not enough room between the instruments to breathe. It feels claustrophobic. That can be effective if that is your intent to set the mood of a song, but as status quo it is fatiguing to listen to. And the artifice sets this level of separation--I can't seem to really get into it. Its like I'm watching from behind glass. I've never been an audio purist. I was the first guy doing cartwheels down the street when I realized I could put my whole music collection onto a little electronic box and take it wherever I go. For the most part, the convenience factor still wins me over. But something is shifting. I'm starting to notice what I'm missing. And things that are really important to me I have gone back and re-ripped at as high bitrates as possible. There might still be some loss, but I'm content with it. But now I'm running into serious disk-space issues on the iPod. If I upgraded to that new 160GB I would be ok, I guess, but that requires spending money I don't have. Ironically, the music is starting to feel bulky again--since if I want it to sound the way I want, the files are huge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a.miller Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Is it even possible to have high-bitrate songs play on an iPod? I thought even if you rip them at 320, they still get compressed or converted to 128 when you put them on your iPod. Either way, music is totally fucked these days for a whole number of reasons. The bitrate and compresssion issues really only matter to a small minority -- I don't like it, but it's true. You can't tell me that people who buy Avril Lavigne records give one fat shit about bitrate and sound quality -- and that's the the issue. Most people don't realize how lousy most pop music is, let alone that it's compressed, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Is it even possible to have high-bitrate songs play on an iPod? I thought even if you rip them at 320, they still get compressed or converted to 128 when you put them on your iPod.No. It gives you the option to do so, but it is not mandatory. iTunes pluses are 256. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imsjry Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Two of my favorite albums, Dylan's Modern Times and The Jayhawks-Rainy Day Music are mastered so loud that there is distortion throughout. I first thought it was my speakers or my system, but it happens on every system I play them on. I can't believe no one heard that when they were mastered in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Two of my favorite albums, Dylan's Modern Times and The Jayhawks-Rainy Day Music are mastered so loud that there is distortion throughout. I first thought it was my speakers or my system, but it happens on every system I play them on. I can't believe no one heard that when they were mastered in the first place.I've had the same problem with some (all?) of the Billy Bragg re-masters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 That's how it is with The Slider. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Let's face it..we're fucked.... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I'll bring my stuff and we can hold up in your basement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vacant Horizon Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 No. It gives you the option to do so, but it is not mandatory. iTunes pluses are 256. this really concerns me! so even though i rip discs into itunes at say 320, it gets compressed as it is synced to the ipod? utterly ridiculous if true. please, tell me more and how to access any changes.craig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stooka Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thought this might be a good place to ask, Is it me or does Jeff's voice have some distortion a couple of times on the song SBS? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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