Bob Dylan vs. Jeff Tweedy

[HighFives]

I wasn't saying neil young is normal at all, just more normal than dylan.

[junkiesmile]

I'm (rather surprisingly) not the only Tweedy voter...yet the others seem to be in hiding

 

 

I'm a Tweedy voter for the same reason as this guy.

to me tweedy is the best songwriter simply because he's my favorite.

 

 

But this thread has inspired me to investigate Bob further. I just downloaded No Direction Home off of the itunes music store. Don't get me wrong, I'm an old man* and have tried Bob in the past to no avail. I work in a music oriented field and am exposed to Dylan lovers and haters everyday. A lot of my friends/co-workers were converted by this documentary. Anyway I'm giving him another try. One of these days it might click.I gather from this thread that it's a widely held opinion that Bob invented poetic lyrics? I'm a big fan of meaningful lyrics. Do I have Dylan to thank for that? I'm also a fan of meaningless lyrics as long as the song as a whole is good(we are talking about song writing not lyric writing). Brian Wilson wrote meaningless or sophomoric lyrics when he wrote any at all, but I would still consider him a song writing genius on par with the best out there. As far as music goes( which is part of a great song) I think the Beatles, Brian Wilson and the Kinks were just as inventive if not more inventive than Dylan ever was. Tweedy, imo, has the whole package. He's my generations great songwriter, drawing from all of his influences and still maintaining his own style. We're lucky to have him, and to me, in my life, he's still better than Dylan.

 

 

 

 

*not old enough to have been able to experience and appreciate Dylan the first time around.

[Edie]

interesting how this is approaching the 80/20 rule.

[LouieB]

I'm an old man* and have tried Bob in the past to no avail.

Brian Wilson wrote meaningless or sophomoric lyrics when he wrote any at all, but I would still consider him a song writing genius on par with the best out there.

*not old enough to have been able to experience and appreciate Dylan the first time around.

So how old are you? It must not be old enough....

 

As far as Brian Wilson, he is a songwriting genius not based on his lyrics, but on the sound of his music. (I have been saying this for years here.....)

 

LouieB

[Gobias Industries]

I gather from this thread that it's a widely held opinion that Bob invented poetic lyrics?

 

Rap, too. He would've invented punk, but the Beatles stole that when he was still a folkie.

 

I also agree with LouieB, Brian Wilson is a phenomenal songwriter, he just doesn't bother with the whole serious bit of songwriting, and his gift for melody and harmony is on par (possibly better) than Paul McCartney's.

[LouieB]

Rap, too. He would've invented punk, but the Beatles stole that when he was still a folkie.

 

I also agree with LouieB, Brian Wilson is a phenomenal songwriter, he just doesn't bother with the whole serious bit of songwriting, and his gift for melody and harmony is on par (possibly better) than Paul McCartney's.

Actually Elvis invented punk....take a regular old song and speed it up....and play it loud...

 

LouieB

[junkiesmile]

I finished No Direction Home last night and was pretty impressed. Dylan was already a part of our "classic rock" culture by the time I started really exploring music . I never really gave him a second thought, the same with the Beatles. The songs were always there as far back as I can remember so I guess I've always taken them for granted. I came around to the Beach Boys and the Beatles but I have never fully appreciated Dylan. The documentary gave me some context, so.........

Where do I start my Dylan collection?

[Analogman]

I finished No Direction Home last night and was pretty impressed. Dylan was already a part of our "classic rock" culture by the time I started really exploring music . I never really gave him a second thought, the same with the Beatles. The songs were always there as far back as I can remember so I guess I've always taken them for granted. I came around to the Beach Boys and the Beatles but I have never fully appreciated Dylan. The documentary gave me some context, so.........

Where do I start my Dylan collection?

 

 

A recent Dylan albums thread - see if that helps.

[bjorn_skurj]

Rap, too. He would've invented punk, but the Beatles stole that when he was still a folkie.

 

I also agree with LouieB, Brian Wilson is a phenomenal songwriter, he just doesn't bother with the whole serious bit of songwriting, and his gift for melody and harmony is on par (possibly better) than Paul McCartney's.

Is that what they teach in Montessori school these days? Dylan did not invent rap. On his own XM radio show once, he played a song from 1940s that had that hip-hop spoken word cadence.

[CortezTheKiller]

I wasn't saying neil young is normal at all

Neil Young is more of a normal guy

[oceanman]

What rails did Neil ride?

About 10 miles of blow up his nose?

[LouieB]

Is that what they teach in Montessori school these days? Dylan did not invent rap. On his own XM radio show once, he played a song from 1940s that had that hip-hop spoken word cadence.

Uh...I think that was a joke....

 

About 10 miles of blow up his nose?

 

LouieB

[W(TF)]

Where do I start my Dylan collection?

 

I would start right here. His first record of original material. And consider that he was barely 20 years old when he recorded it.

 

 

I think it's good to go through the first 8 records chronologically.. tho you can skip the first one and the first GH.

[junkiesmile]

I would start right here. His first record of original material.

Thanks, I went down to Waterloo today and bought Freewheelin, Highway 61, Bringing It All Back Home, and Blonde on Blonde. Also I rented Don't Look Back. We'll see how it all sinks in. I may be a crazy Dylan fan like you guys in a couple of weeks. I just hope I don't turn into a hippy.

[awatt]

Jeff.

[froggie]

Blood on the tracks and Infidels are well worth getting next

[LouieB]

I just hope I don't turn into a hippy.

You can avoid that by not eating too much, particularly high fat or high carbohydrate foods.....get plenty of excercise and eat lots of veggies....

 

LouieB

[junkiesmile]

You can avoid that by not eating too much, particularly high fat or high carbohydrate foods.....get plenty of excercise and eat lots of veggies....

 

LouieB

 

Sorry, I mean hippie

[markosis]

As a side note, I just got Planet Waves, and god damn that is some great music!

[muleskinner_blues]

As a side note, I just got Planet Waves, and god damn that is some great music!

 

Ya, Planet Waves is excellent. Never Say Goodbye, Hazel, On A Night Like This..

I think that 74-76 period might be my favorite Dylan, at least at the moment..between that album, the 74 tour with the Band, Blood On The Tracks, the Rolling Thunder tour and Desire.

 

 

Just returned from the Dylan Days celebrations in Hibbing. Ramblin' Jack was headlining, with Tony Glover and Spider John Koerner (who played with Dylan in Dinkytown) opening. Jack was awesome.. I actually ran into him at the bar Friday night and had a conversation with him, very cool guy, lives up to his name Ramblin'.... told some great Woody stories.

[CortezTheKiller]

As a side note, I just got Planet Waves, and god damn that is some great music!

Indeed. It's been in heavy rotation for me the past few weeks.

[giraffo]

I think somone else would have been there if Dylan wasn't. I also think that people tend to give too much weight to people like Dylan and Neil Young, and tend to give them some kind of Olympian treatment. They didn't come out of the womb able to write better than the baby next to them. In reality they're just normal people. Dylan may be a bit of a douche bag and I think he's just huge on his own ego, but I don't think he's not normal because his job is to write songs (which for the past like 25 years or so he's been kind of sucking at hard). People can't really say what's "crazy" about him, he's not like Daniel Johnston where the guy actually is crazy. Most people are too hung up giving these people such high treatment that they can never modestly analyze them. My vote goes for Tweedy. I like 98% of his songs and he has adamantly shied away from being a pretentious dick. Sure, there's a possibility he'll release a bum record down the line but I'm sure it'll be different from the record before it, not some bluesy bullshit he's being doing for the past 60 years or something like some people might do. I like Desire, Highway 61, etc. but I still vote for JT.

[W(TF)]

Thanks, I went down to Waterloo today and bought Freewheelin, Highway 61, Bringing It All Back Home, and Blonde on Blonde. Also I rented Don't Look Back. We'll see how it all sinks in. I may be a crazy Dylan fan like you guys in a couple of weeks. I just hope I don't turn into a hippy.

 

From Dylan?? Not a chance. He was always the sort of antithesis of whatever popular movement was happening, including the civil rights/folkies, the hippies, and Vietnam anti-war protestors. If it was hip and cool (as defined by mainstream media), Dylan was usually quick to distance himself from it.

[oceanman]

I think somone else would have been there if Dylan wasn't. I also think that people tend to give too much weight to people like Dylan and Neil Young, and tend to give them some kind of Olympian treatment.

yup

 

You know who they call "The Poor Man's Bob Dylan", right?

 

I know of a man in town that straight up blows any singer/writer out of the water concerning folk music. You or anyone else for that matter might never get a chance to hear his music. When I listen to him play, I wan't to pack my guitar up for good and call it quits. My point being is that the world may never know of the one's hiding out in their basements that are creating some of the best music ever made. Not everyone gets that chance. My heros aren't anyone famous, just friends I've met along the way. Thank you, and when I pass we shall pick again.

 

 

 

It's goodbye to all my friends

It's time to leave again

Here's to all the poetry

And the pickin' down the line

I'll miss the system here

The bottom's low and the trebble's clear

But it don't pay to think too much

On things you leave behind

Well, I may be gone, awe, I won't be long

I'll be bringing back the melody

And the rhythm that I find

[W(TF)]

Townes for one would never have picked up a guitar if it weren't for Dylan's first few records. He said so himself. I think Leonard Cohen falls into that camp as well. One of the great things Bob Dylan did was open the door for the legions of singers who posessed untrained, or just plain strange voices.

 

Just food for thought.