Moe_Syzlak Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Youkilis? no. AJ Pierzynski? Absolutely! Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Youkilis? no. AJ Pierzynski? Absolutely!Pierzynski can be a a dick sometimes, but he plays the game the right way! The Twins lineup in the earlier part of the decade (Hunter, Jacque Jones, Pierzynski, Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Guzman, etc) was the best example of team where the whole was better than the parts. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Wow. I had no idea Papelbon was such an ungenerous, egotistical douche. (Well, there was that suspect little dance he did after those games.) Thank you, New York Daily News! Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 seems like an odd guy to hate, though he does look like a d-bag. ? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Wow. I had no idea Papelbon was such an ungenerous, egotistical douche. (Well, there was that suspect little dance he did after those games.) Thank you, New York Daily News!Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did we read the entire article? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 So apparently everyone in the world hates Youkilis?no, no hate youkilis. he doesn't have much humor, that's the problem, and we're used to humor with the sox. nevertheless, he works really hard and is an excellent player. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 ESPN writer who drove Papelbon in the NYC parade yesterday:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=mlb Highlight:Our journey up Sixth Avenue was about to end, but before it was over, we ran into three guys -- let's call them uber-Yankee fans -- who were clearly vying for some sort of title as they delivered the most hateful things they could think of to accompany the half-a-peace-sign salute they were offering. As we prepared to round the corner and head for Central Park, Papelbon looked at these three gentlemen, then quizzically at his own hand, and decided to give them a salute of his own using the ring finger on his right hand, where his 2007 World Series Champion ring calls home. No need to repeat what was said -- let's just say those dudes didn't like what they saw.oh those poor yankees fans. the more they hate papelbon, the more insecure you know they feel. maybe they should take a page out of rivera's book and show some likable character for a change, like he did at fenway park during the rings ceremony or season opener in 2005 (darn it, what and when was that occasion!). he has a truly great attitude. i've loved the guy ever since. and papelbon? first year, he came off only as this wicked good Serious Closer, which certainly was good enough. but after that? wow, a personality was hiding under the deadly stare! the guy has more interesting facets than the whole american league combined. (slight exaggeration, but not much.) Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did we read the entire article?I would try to backpedal too if it dawned on me that I was dissing the greatest closer of all time in regards to the All-Star game in the final year of Yankee Stadium. In interviews, it's usually the first thing someone says that's the truth, not the rather theatric, lame denials which followed. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I would try to backpedal too if it dawned on me that I was dissing the greatest closer of all time in regards to the All-Star game in the final year of Yankee Stadium. In interviews, it's usually the first thing someone says that's the truth, not the rather theatric, lame denials which followed.Wow, Bjorn. He didn't dis him at all. He actually offered a lot of praise for him. The whole story is that both he and Mariano said they would choose to close given the option. Really, that's it: Washington Post article:http://stats.washingtonpost.com/mlb/story....mp;tm=&src= Daily News article (note that Mariano says basically the exact same thing as Papelbon):http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...ld_close_a.html And Papelbon's response to the misleading Daily News headline:http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basebal...&position=0 I honestly don't see anything wrong with what Papelbon said. This isn't fanboyism, either. What he said was splashed out of context for a headline to sell more papers. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I would try to backpedal too if it dawned on me that I was dissing the greatest closer of all time in regards to the All-Star game in the final year of Yankee Stadium. In interviews, it's usually the first thing someone says that's the truth, not the rather theatric, lame denials which followed.this sounds like rather theatric, lame over-seriousness about a baseball parade in which numerous ballplayers showed themselves off. and apparently papelbon's own lightheartedness passed you by. too bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Pap's a tool, no doubt, but I don't get from the interview that he was seriously upset that Rivera would close over him. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Pap's a tool, no doubt, but I don't get from the interview that he was seriously upset that Rivera would close over him.I think the guy has a screw loose (not necessarily a tool), and he certainly seemed just to be offering that he'd close just as soon as Mariano would. Nothing more. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I mean, Pap's a good closer. Mariano is the greatest closer of all time, and it was the last ASG in Yankee Stadium. There's no way anyone but Mariano should've closed it out. I also still maintain that Papelbon's not really that good, though I know that is about as close to blasphemy as you can come to many here. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I also still maintain that Papelbon's not really that good, though because I know that is about as close to blasphemy as you can come to many here.Fixed it for you. Joke Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But really. He's good for what he does, but he doesn't do very much. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I also still maintain that Papelbon's not really that good, though I know that is about as close to blasphemy as you can come to many here.Just curious: when comparing closers, what makes Papelbon "not really that good" in relation to your average closer? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 i think people are hiding their real reason for disliking anything and everything that papelbon said in new york: his grammar needs a major overhaul. but that don't make the guy mean what he in fact didn't say and ain't and when you can't hear his tone and all that, you know what i'm sayin? of course he has a screw loose, in general. and of course he'd like to close, duh. he also paid plenty plenty plenty of respect to rivera. talk about mountains out of molehills. talk about lack of humor. geez! let me out of here! never mind, i see the door. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Just curious: when comparing closers, what makes Papelbon "not really that good" in relation to your average closer? Well, in my eyes "not really that good" implies that he is overrated, mostly because he just doesn't throw very many innings. He's a good closer. He's not miles ahead of the average closer, though. He racks up saves because his teams win 100 games per year, but he's pitching 60 innings per year. He is also mostly overrated by virtue of being a closer. It is the single most overrated "position" in the game. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 this sounds like rather theatric, lame over-seriousness about a baseball parade in which numerous ballplayers showed themselves off. and apparently papelbon's own lightheartedness passed you by. too bad.Actually, it was that dance that did it. I will also point out that nothing could be less relevant than my personal opinion of Jonathan Papelbon. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 It was Pap's shit in that steamy baggie, wasn't it Bjorn. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Well, in my eyes "not really that good" implies that he is overrated, mostly because he just doesn't throw very many innings. He's a good closer. He's not miles ahead of the average closer, though. He racks up saves because his teams win 100 games per year, but he's pitching 60 innings per year. He is also mostly overrated by virtue of being a closer. It is the single most overrated "position" in the game.The nature/job description of a closer isn't to throw a lot of innings, though. It's to close out close games. He's very effective in that role. I disagree that it's an overrated position, too. The importance/reference/reliance of stats for the position may be overrated, but the role is a worthy and justified one. By saying Mariano is the greatest closer of all time means something, too. It's a role that has value. It's special that Mariano has been able to close as many games as he has and as effectively as he has. If it's an overrated role, there's no point in recognizing "the greatest," is there? ed. And part of the reason why the team wins all those games is because he does his job so well. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 More importantly - how about that Naomi Campbell Lifewater ad! Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The nature/job description of a closer isn't to throw a lot of innings, though. It's to close out close games. He's very effective in that role. I disagree that it's an overrated position, too. The importance/reference/reliance of stats for the position may be overrated, but the role is a worthy and justified one. By saying Mariano is the greatest closer of all time means something, too. It's a role that has value. It's special that Mariano has been able to close as many games as he has and as effectively as he has. If it's an overrated role, there's no point in recognizing "the greatest," is there? ed. And part of the reason why the team wins all those games is because he does his job so well. The team would probably lose no more than 5 or 6 games per year with an average closer. The reason Mariano is the greatest is mostly because of his postseason record. In the regular season, he mostly pitches when his team is ahead and he only goes one inning at a time. Same with Papelbon and most closers. This is why they are overrated. Most pitchers aren't going to blow a 2 or 3 run lead before they 3 outs. Mo is the best because in the postseason, he's pitching far more often in high leverage situations and he steps his game up. It's an absolutely overrated position. Your best relief pitcher should not be saved for when you are up by 3 runs in the ninth. Link to post Share on other sites
Smokestack Joe Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 anyone wanna talk about the Padres or Mariners rather than the Red Sox/White Sox/Cubs/Yankees? i hear that Ichiro is a good player... Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 A closer can be very valuable to a team, but most teams squander their value by using them exclusively in save situations rather than when they're most in need of a good pitcher. As bobbob said, pretty much any big league pitcher can get 3 outs before giving up 2-3 runs on a pretty consistent basis. Link to post Share on other sites
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