Panther Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 reading the last few pages I can say this I understand the atheist perspective I just feel it is a confused one. You talk down to people who believe in "god" by putting words in their mouths and assuming every religious person is the same, I get it. Most Christians are not educated on the history of their religion there is allot of shadiness going on in the Vatican.In the 90s I Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Joe, I asked it before and you can flail away at this one all you want. I offer a few alternative words: You probably know, but it's a question from a lawyer: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love (or RESPECT) THE WORLD/LIFE/UNIVERSE with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Everything hangs on these two. What is inherently wrong with this? EEEEWWWww (j/k) Nothing, it Link to post Share on other sites
Moe_Syzlak Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 reading the last few pages I can say this I understand the atheist perspective I just feel it is a confused one. You talk down to people who believe in "god" by putting words in their mouths and assuming every religious person is the same, I get it. P.S Atheism is lame Pot meet kettle. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a football game to prepare for. Dawkins! I hope we win! Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 In the 90s I Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Did someone make an atheism vs. agnosticism post ten or twelve pages ago? If not, I could get on it. I mean, you probably could guess what I would say, but if you're curious let me know and I'll drum it up sometime in the next couple days. Link to post Share on other sites
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Nothing, it Link to post Share on other sites
Central Scrutinizer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 This is right around the time I also started loitering around abortion clinics, I mean, come, you just know these chicks dig sex. Oh, and I got a tattoo.Riffing on Stephen Wright. Alright. Link to post Share on other sites
awatt Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Wow. I'm with Mircea Eliade: homo religiosus, you know? We're all religious, just part of human condition. I don't believe in God but can't escape being religious. No such thing as "religion", no particular essence or substance to that noun, and no such thing as "Christians", "Jews", "Hindus," etc. Religion is an invented category made up by western imagination (read Jonathan Z. Smith). I prefer adjective, "religious" as more useful way of talking about certain behaviors, predispositions, sensibilities, etc. Also like to shift focus to "sacred" which is also an empty term that can refer to anything---sex, drugs, rock and roll, our love for Wilco. Someone should write a book about about this shit.... Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Someone should write a book about about this shit.... These just happen to be three of my favorites. Link to post Share on other sites
awatt Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 You know your shit...Nice selections. Also, if I may suggest more socially/culturally oriented discussion, a classic: Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Would it be fair to say that atheists don't, on the whole, make good sports fans? I know I tend to look at things a little too realistically and sometimes don't just let the total fan part out all of the way. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 You know your shit...Nice selections. Also, if I may suggest more socially/culturally oriented discussion, a classic: I'm gonna write that down and see if I can score a used one at the smelly old book shop. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
fineartoflife Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I just don't think that the whole idea that Christianity was made up is valid, because it is so complicated, so unexpected, so radical, that it cannot be a mere man that has come up with such claims Link to post Share on other sites
markosis Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Every human being is after something, every human being strives for something. Even an atheist/agnostic seeks things that bring pleasure, things that will improve their existence. Some of the most vehemently anti-religious people I know are, ironically, avid sports fans, or avid partiers, or avid music fans etc. The act of watching a sporting event for enjoyment is itself a connection to "god." It is a connection to a power that they are after. It doesn't really matter what the power is called. Some may call it "happiness", or "love", or "God", or "truth." The fact remains that no matter who we are, we are after something, we strive to attain something: a feeling, a state of mind, a possession, etc. And even the most "atheistic" among us knows the feeling when we connect to what it is we are after. A bum strives for a meal and a warm bed, a songwriter strives for that magical mixture of chords and melody, an alcoholic strives for a drink. I don't reject any religious teaching or belief because I realize that organized religion is the way that some people use to connect to their happiness/truth/love/God. We're all in this thing together, we are all after the same thing. Maybe I go to shows, maybe you go to church, maybe someone else goes to a soccer game, someone else makes love, someone else goes for a bike ride. If one calls it God and another calls it something else, it doesn't matter. Its all the same thing. I just don't think that the whole idea that Christianity was made up is valid, because it is so complicated, so unexpected, so radical, that it cannot be a mere man that has come up with such claims Well, I'd say that the Bible (or the Koran, the Torah, et al) was one person's (or a group of people's) view of life. Life was, is, and always will be complicated, unexpected and radical. I'd say its certainly not impossible than an enlightened person could create something so resonant to help us deal with this existence. To say that a human is incapable of such things is to greatly underestimate humanity. All that any organized religion does is attempt to quantify existence, which is what we all do on a daily basis. To think that an enlightened few came up with a method of explaining our existence seems pretty reasonable to me. Link to post Share on other sites
fineartoflife Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Well, I'd say that the Bible was one person's (or a group of people's) view of life. Life was, is, and always will be complicated, unexpected and radical. I'd say its certainly not impossible than an enlightened person could create something so resonant to help us deal with this existence. Are you saying that they are all legitimate "pursuits," is it just a way to define ourselves when we really aren't? I guess it all comes down to the divinity of Jesus, when you can separate him from other enlightened people, and define some sort of basis for our existence Btw, i really enjoyed your description of the human struggle for meaning, it's a beautiful yet ugly yet awesome thing Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites
markosis Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Are you saying that they are all legitimate "pursuits," is it just a way to define ourselves when we really aren't? Not quite. I'm just trying to break down some walls. Get rid of the semantics of religion/spirituality and get down to the heart of the matter, which is the same no matter who you are. I don't think we need to be defined by anything other than the fact that we all breathe, eat, and sleep, i.e. we are all human beings. What I was saying wasn't really to point out the pursuits so much as to point out that we all do pursue, and religion is a means of pursuing that "something," so I think its foolish to reject spirituality when we are all engaged in spiritual pursuits of some kind. I also was trying to say that atheism/agnosticism doesn't really exist, for the very reason that we are all striving for something. Link to post Share on other sites
fineartoflife Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Not quite. I'm just trying to break down some walls. Get rid of the semantics of religion/spirituality and get down to the heart of the matter, which is the same no matter who you are. I don't think we need to be defined by anything other than the fact that we all breathe, eat, and sleep, i.e. we are all human beings. What I was saying wasn't really to point out the pursuits so much as to point out that we all do pursue, and religion is a means of pursuing that "something," so I think its foolish to reject spirituality when we are all engaged in spiritual pursuits of some kind. I also was trying to say that atheism/agnosticism doesn't really exist, for the very reason that we are all striving for something. I get what you're saying, and I think that is a very important step in looking at this whole picture at some point though, it all comes down to if what we are pursuing is actually "something," if that "hole in our heart" persay can actually be filled, or if we attempt to fill it up with other stuff that truely doesn't fit, so we search for what does, and as Christians believe (or at least some) it is Christ, and atheists believe (or at least some) do it is unfillable and our attempt to find something to plug it with is more or less a psychological response to our flawed human condition Link to post Share on other sites
markosis Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 at some point though, it all comes down to if what we are pursuing is actually "something," if that "hole in our heart" persay can actually be filled, or if we attempt to fill it up with other stuff that truely doesn't fit, so we search for what does Ah yes, and some of us will never really know. Some go through life never pursuing anything that has real meaning to them, they're just following a dead end road. I think a word like "God" came into being to describe those who had found their pursuit, the holy ones who knew their path and followed it, that those people are filled with "God", or they have found "God." Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I just don't think that the whole idea that Christianity was made up is valid, because it is so complicated, so unexpected, so radical, that it cannot be a mere man that has come up with such claims you do know that the bible & christianity were developed/created & honed over many hundreds of years, by many many people - ignoring certain gospels, and including others for whatever reason, as well as absorbing elements from other religions of the time. older religions even had the jesus figure for christianity to draw inspiration from. the greek religion and all those gods for EVERYTHING - now that is complex. as is the pagan religion, and surely if religion were a "PERSONAL" thing as someone said in this thread (i can't remember who it was now, maybe a couple of people) then certainly these 'dead gods' would not be 'dead' at all, but as equally popular as christianity and the rest. also, atheism is complicated - the sheer level of science and thought that has gone into it is astoundingly large. not that 99% of the people that take this view understand any of it (so, i guess that's one thing in which it is like a religion). (i'm not an atheist, by the way) Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I just don't think that the whole idea that Christianity was made up is valid, because it is so complicated, so unexpected, so radical, that it cannot be a mere man that has come up with such claims If you think Christianity (and by extension, (or would it be reversion?) the Bible) is complicated, pick up Thomas Pynchon Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 But in all seriousness, most creation myth Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 that would have actually been funny if it said pwned Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 If I was any good at photoshop it would have. I wanted it to say I am Jack's war on war too, but that's kind of long for the bubble. Link to post Share on other sites
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