Wilco. Had Jay Bennett not left the band

[myboyblue]

I don't see it posted anywhere else so here is a recent interview with Jay...

http://myoldkyhome.blogspot.com/2008/12/my...holiday_24.html

He is also a founding member of the band Titanic Love Affair (often compared to Dinosaur Jr. and The Replacements).

 

[jff]

I don't see it posted anywhere else so here is a recent interview with Jay...

http://myoldkyhome.blogspot.com/2008/12/my...holiday_24.html

 

His overuse of unnecessary quotation marks is kind of annoying.

[thejokeexplained]

MOKB : Feel free to share any holiday wishes, facts you'd like to be known, your calls, etc... here.

 

Jay Bennett : I'm not the dick head portrayed in the Wilco "documentary," I w ill probably spend a lifetime living down the after effects of someone else's creative editing. But, anybody who gets to know me even a little bit will paint you a very different picture. So, I guess one wish of mine would be for the world to know me for who I really am, but that's probably a lot to ask.

 

 

After reading that Q&A Jay didn't do himself any favors trying to get me to believe anything different than how the Wilco film portrayed him.

 

He just comes across as someone who tries to hard to be cool.

[boo jim boo]

I think the piling on Jay that goes on around here is a little silly.

 

Here's a better question: What would have happened with Wilco if he had never JOINED the band? It can be argued that he was the architect of the 3 albums that showed the most growth in the band: Being There, Summerteeth, and YHF. Yes his relationship with Jeff fell apart put for 6/7 years before that he was unbelievably important. He helped transform Wilco from an alt-country also-ran (sorry, but AM really wasn't very good) to a diverse, experimental band. Jay played a huge part in that. I would argue that if Jay never JOINED Wilco, they wouldn't be a band today.

 

Wilco shows with Jay, in my mind, were much better than the ones without him. Ever since he left, Wilco has had a very "Jeff Tweedy and his Backing Band" feel to it. Wilco, to this day, suffers not having another personality onstage and in the studio to counteract Tweedy. The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise, Jeff was not yet ready to play 'lead' guitar. Today the sound is more full and the players are better but the shows lack the spontaneity that they had with Jay. And I miss that.

[Guest Jules]

I think the piling on Jay that goes on around here is a little silly.

 

Here's a better question: What would have happened with Wilco if he had never JOINED the band? It can be argued that he was the architect of the 3 albums that showed the most growth in the band: Being There, Summerteeth, and YHF. Yes his relationship with Jeff fell apart put for 6/7 years before that he was unbelievably important. He helped transform Wilco from an alt-country also-ran (sorry, but AM really wasn't very good) to a diverse, experimental band. Jay played a huge part in that. I would argue that if Jay never JOINED Wilco, they wouldn't be a band today.

 

Wilco shows with Jay, in my mind, were much better than the ones without him. Ever since he left, Wilco has had a very "Jeff Tweedy and his Backing Band" feel to it. Wilco, to this day, suffers not having another personality onstage and in the studio to counteract Tweedy. The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise, Jeff was not yet ready to play 'lead' guitar. Today the sound is more full and the players are better but the shows lack the spontaneity that they had with Jay. And I miss that.

1) Not a "better" question, but a completely different one. I don't think anyone would argue that Jay's contributions to the albums you listed were vital.

 

2) "The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco." You couldn't be more wrong. In fact, many on this board consider that period the best, or at least their favorite. So, I would say it's questionable.

 

3) The personality comment: I really don't know what you're talking about there.

[mountain bed]

IMO the longer this version of the band stays together the 'JT w/ backing band' idea is less and less plausible. Nels, in particular, is a force of nature and is completely capable of taking over during any given tune. Hopefully the next LP will show his far ranging talents to a greater degree.

[froggie]

> The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise

 

i'm one of the people who think its their best. they may be more polished these days but i love that stripped down sound they had from septemeber to november 2001

[dondoboy]

> The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise

 

i'm one of the people who think its their best. they may be more polished these days but i love that stripped down sound they had from septemeber to november 2001

I loved those shows too. It felt wide open. It proved to me how amazing Glenn is and how John is such an important part of this band.

 

And I would say the worst months of Wilco were the months just prior to Jay leaving. That huge, bombast sound was awful.

[froggie]

just check out the version of Sunken Treasure from Detroit, 5 oct 01 and that should be living proof its one of their best periods

[skip]

Sure Bennett was an important part of the band's history. He was a right hand in songwriting on the Mermaid records, Summerteeth, and YHF and brought piano/keys to the band on Being There. His knowledge in the studio is well documented although at times he appeared to need an editor. Arguments could be made that when he was in the band that they were... more raw. Was that because Bennett was in the picture then or just because the band was younger at that point in time?

 

Today as a unit... they appear to be healthier now. From what we "know", some of them have settled down (i.e., married w/ children) and the days of drugs and alcohol seem to be behind them. The current sound is more refined and tighter now than ever before. Is that because former members have left the band or because most everyone eventually gets older or matures?

 

At the end of the day - I'm getting tired of seeing Jay Bennett threads. Didn't he leave the band in 2001? The fact remains that those days are gone, so please just let it go.

[mpolak21]

I loved those shows too. It felt wide open. It proved to me how amazing Glenn is and how John is such an important part of this band.

 

And I would say the worst months of Wilco were the months just prior to Jay leaving. That huge, bombast sound was awful.

 

I agree if we're referring to the last days of the Bennett/Coomer era, the 2000 shows are a little difficult for me to get into. But the very last shows Jay did with the band after Glenn joined are all great, particularly the July 4, 2001 show.

 

At the end of the day - I'm getting tired of seeing Jay Bennett threads. Didn't he leave the band in 2001? The fact remains that those days are gone, so please just let it go.

 

I know these threads get repetitive, but since we do get new fans here all the time, who don't necessarily have the time/patience to search through all the old threads, Bennett threads still have a function. His departure was a pretty big moment in Wilco, and as new fans get into the band and find out about it's history it's something that lends itself pretty well to message board discussion. As long as people watch I am Trying To Break Your Heart, it's going to be something that's discussed here. The challenge is to either to bring something new to the discussion, rehash old topics, or ignore it completely, all of which seem to happen in various ways in these threads.

 

--Mike

[froggie]

> But the very last shows Jay did with the band after Glenn joined are all great

 

nothing against Jay, but i was referring to the shows at the end of 2001 when it was jeff/john/leroy and glenn that are my faves

[jff]

I think the piling on Jay that goes on around here is a little silly.

 

Here's a better question: What would have happened with Wilco if he had never JOINED the band? It can be argued that he was the architect of the 3 albums that showed the most growth in the band: Being There, Summerteeth, and YHF. Yes his relationship with Jeff fell apart put for 6/7 years before that he was unbelievably important. He helped transform Wilco from an alt-country also-ran (sorry, but AM really wasn't very good) to a diverse, experimental band. Jay played a huge part in that. I would argue that if Jay never JOINED Wilco, they wouldn't be a band today.

 

Wilco shows with Jay, in my mind, were much better than the ones without him. Ever since he left, Wilco has had a very "Jeff Tweedy and his Backing Band" feel to it. Wilco, to this day, suffers not having another personality onstage and in the studio to counteract Tweedy. The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco. The shows were empty sound-wise, Jeff was not yet ready to play 'lead' guitar. Today the sound is more full and the players are better but the shows lack the spontaneity that they had with Jay. And I miss that.

 

One theory is that Tweedy knew that he wasn't completely ready, or wasn't confident enough to be THE driving force in a band. He probably knew he needed a foil, and had it not been Jay it would likely have been someone else. Perhaps Tweedy working with the Minus Five and with Billy Bragg is evidence that he was still trying to develop his leadership skills while having a safety net in the form of co-leaders.

 

I never saw Wilco with Jay, but I saw them on Austin City Limits and some other tv programs. Granted, that's not the same as being in the actual audience. My impression was that they were a very good band, but one who fit squarely into the archetype of a two guitar rock band. That's not a bad thing, but it is a formula that allows the singer/frontman to fade into the background while letting the lead guitarist take over for a minute, or basically to become a second frontman. So you basically had the Jay and Jeff show with rhythm section (not to take anything away from Ken, John, Leroy, etc.)

 

Contrast that with the current lineup and sound. I would argue that they currently have more of an ensemble sound. With an expanded lineup, each person, including Tweedy, can carry less of the load and wind up with a richer overall sound. Sure, it looks like the "Jeff Tweedy with backup band" show, because Tweedy stands in the center of the stage and has a bright spotlight, but it doesn't sound like Jeff with a backup band. It sounds like an ensemble in which each person is equally important.

[remphish1]

Sure Bennett was an important part of the band's history. He was a right hand in songwriting on the Mermaid records, Summerteeth, and YHF and brought piano/keys to the band on Being There. His knowledge in the studio is well documented although at times he appeared to need an editor. Arguments could be made that when he was in the band that they were... more raw. Was that because Bennett was in the picture then or just because the band was younger at that point in time?

 

Today as a unit... they appear to be healthier now. From what we "know", some of them have settled down (i.e., married w/ children) and the days of drugs and alcohol seem to be behind them. The current sound is more refined and tighter now than ever before. Is that because former members have left the band or because most everyone eventually gets older or matures?

 

At the end of the day - I'm getting tired of seeing Jay Bennett threads. Didn't he leave the band in 2001? The fact remains that those days are gone, so please just let it go.

 

I see what you are saying that he left in 2001. But people will always talk about band members who departed (or aren't alive anymore). Ie Guns and Roses without Slash, Who without Moon, Led Zeppelin without Bonham...

[boo jim boo]

ok - so maybe i should have said "unquestionably in my mind." but really, i remember going to the show at 930 club in september 2001 and just being crushed. my favorite band was struggling tremendously. the venue was half-full and they just weren't having any fun at all. they had no idea what to do with these songs because jay was so integral to them and Jeff was - at the time - just not at all a lead guitar player. It was the most depressing show of theirs I had ever seen.

 

 

1) Not a "better" question, but a completely different one. I don't think anyone would argue that Jay's contributions to the albums you listed were vital.

 

2) "The months after Jay left were unquestionably the worst months of Wilco." You couldn't be more wrong. In fact, many on this board consider that period the best, or at least their favorite. So, I would say it's questionable.

 

3) The personality comment: I really don't know what you're talking about there.

[MattZ]

I have no idea, but I'd be willing to bet a nickel that Jeff doesn't hold nearly the grudge against Jay that fans appear to hold against him for their perceptions (real and imagined) of the relationship. I'd also like to be the one to suggest to everyone that the relationship between Jeff and Jay Bennett is/was a little more complicated than could possibly have been depicted by Sam Jones in 1.5 hrs of a documentary. Relationships end. Both sides benefit, both sides are to blame, both sides get over it. Jay was a vital part of the band. Jay is no longer in the band. Life goes on. I am thankful for his contributions -- they are some of my favorites. I think the band is better now, and Jeff is the artist that I gravitate to. I'd be listening to him no matter who he was playing with. Just my $.02.

[uncool2pillow]

I have no idea, but I'd be willing to bet a nickel that Jeff doesn't hold nearly the grudge against Jay that fans appear to hold against him for their perceptions (real and imagined) of the relationship. I'd also like to be the one to suggest to everyone that the relationship between Jeff and Jay Bennett is/was a little more complicated than could possibly have been depicted by Sam Jones in 1.5 hrs of a documentary. Relationships end. Both sides benefit, both sides are to blame, both sides get over it. Jay was a vital part of the band. Jay is no longer in the band. Life goes on. I am thankful for his contributions -- they are some of my favorites. I think the band is better now, and Jeff is the artist that I gravitate to. I'd be listening to him no matter who he was playing with. Just my $.02.

Pretty much nailed that there!

[thejokeexplained]

they had no idea what to do with these songs because jay was so integral to them and Jeff was - at the time - just not at all a lead guitar player. It was the most depressing show of theirs I had ever seen.

 

I agree about Jeff's guitar work during this era of the band. But now with the influence, as well as tutoring that Nels has given Jeff the past few years. IMO Jeff is now a better player then Jay was at that time.

 

Jeff seems to be a quick study when it comes to guitar. Now if we can just get him to learn piano, or at least learn it well enough to play it before a live audience. It would really add another dimension to his solo gigs. Not to mention what it might do for his song writing style.

 

Lets face it, Jay was a average talent. Otherwise why would he not be more successful this many years past his time with Wilco? Jeff who i see as above average talent seems to do pretty good no matter who he plays with or even as a solo performer. As do most artist of his caliber.

[caliber66]

Since when has solo success been the measure of talent?

[Sir Stewart]

Since when has solo success been the measure of talent?

Since Ringo laid down the bassline on Pink Floyd's "Money" (look it up).

[jff]

Lets face it, Jay was a average talent. Otherwise why would he not be more successful this many years past his time with Wilco?

 

Some people have a talent for collaboration, and aren't well suited to be solo artists. I think Jay fits that category.

 

Not finding success as a solo act does not mean your talent is inferior to those who are successful.

[thejokeexplained]

i don't see where jay has had success as a solo artist or collaborating with others post Wilco. Give me some examples please, i would be happy to check out some of his more successful adventures.

[Sir Stewart]

i don't see where jay has had success as a solo artist or collaborating with others post Wilco. Give me some examples please, i would be happy to check out some of his more successful adventures.

Jeez man.

[jff]

i don't see where jay has had success as a solo artist or collaborating with others post Wilco. Give me some examples please, i would be happy to check out some of his more successful adventures.

 

You missed my point.

[caliber66]

Since Ringo laid down the bassline on Pink Floyd's "Money" (look it up).

Funny, I was going to use John Entwistle (whom Ringo taught how to play fretless) as an example.