Can someone please explain the Tweedy "Living Room Shows"?

[Dude]

What would VC be without bitchful moaning?

[Guest Speed Racer]

the reason you stated seems silly and selfish to me.

 

How about, "Jeff doesn't want them circulated."

 

Is that good enough?

[tstrapac]

As stated in my post, several times, very much so.

[Bart]

Another quote:

 

"What I am saying is that all that has happened in this thread is that someone from the Wilco camp stated, "No, the line you think is 'here' is actually here," and most of us said, "Oops!" and hopped back a few steps."

 

Did that actually happen? I'm not familiar with screen names and who's who in here. Who's the person from the Wilco camp?

 

If that happened, I get it. We should toe the line and play by the rules. I just didn't think/know that happened. I figured it was a bunch of Wilco fans carrying on.

[renic]

srmt is sue miller, also known as jeff's wife.

[MattZ]

It saddens me that (what I consider to be) the definitive version of Someone Else's Song (4/5/08) will not spread joy among the masses, but I respect Jeff's wishes, and I applaud the removal of this show from the information superhighway. Thanks A-Man.

 

And Bart, in all seriousness, you are right that unapproved recordings occur all the time these days. I think you referenced Dylan? The point is that this is a group of folks that wants to respect Jeff's wishes. End of story. What happens among other groups of "fans" in other situations is irrelevant. This group wants to do the right thing. And, as evidenced by the removal of the shows, will.

[Bart]

Considering how intimate, and personal these shows are, I don't see why they would appeal to people who wasnn't there.

 

I'm assuming you haven't heard these shows.

[tstrapac]

It saddens me that (what I consider to be) the definitive version of Someone Else's Song (4/5/08) will not spread joy among the masses, but I respect Jeff's wishes, and I applaud the removal of this show from the information superhighway. Thanks A-Man.

 

And Bart, in all seriousness, you are right that unapproved recordings occur all the time these days. I think you referenced Dylan? The point is that this is a group of folks that wants to respect Jeff's wishes. End of story. What happens among other groups of "fans" in other situations is irrelevant. This group wants to do the right thing. And, as evidenced by the removal of the shows, will.

 

Matt, were you at the 4/5/08 show?

[Guest Speed Racer]

As stated in my post, several times, very much so.

 

I think if you plop down several benjamins + airfare for a private party, it's perfectly reasonable to hope that only the guests get the goodie bags. And with the Rule of Law being what it is, I don't think it matters what people's motives are for adhering to them. Selfish though you may think that is, you really only have to post next to these people, you don't have to be their friend.

 

I'm assuming you haven't heard these shows.

 

I have, and I cannot understand the appeal of listening to them if you weren't there (as I said on page 1 more longwindedly).

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I'm assuming you haven't heard these shows.

No, I'm referring to the fact that they are meant to be personal. I feel like I'm eavesdropping on a private event (which these are) by listening to them. I have no interest in doing so. If I was at one, I'd certainly want the show to listen to whenever, but I think it's strange to have a recording of such a personal show.

 

I'd much rather download a legit Jeff solo show. Those are meant to be heard by a large audience.

[Bart]

srmt is sue miller, also known as jeff's wife.

 

Really?!?! Cue Johnny Carson voice: "I did not know that." Like I said, I'm not hip to the actual names behind the screen names. Apologies for bringing this up then.

 

I respectfully disagree with the idea of certain shows being only accessable to certain people, but if them's the rules, them's the rules.

[MattZ]

Yeah I was at the show, but I am being a wiseass because I figured most people got the lame joke I was making. It is in no way, shape, or form the definitive version of the song. And there ain't no masses that it would spread joy to. I was just lucky enough to be standing next to Jeff with a guitar in my hand during the tune. Ignore me.

 

I was serious about respecting Jeff's (and Sue's) wishes, though. I want to do what they want to have done. End of story. There's really no debate to be had so far as I see it. Even if some of the counterpoints are valid, and that releasing these shows would raise more money. It doesn't matter. Jeff and Sue don't want it to be done.

[tstrapac]

Really?!?! Cue Johnny Carson voice: "I did not know that." Like I said, I'm not hip to the actual names behind the screen names. Apologies for bringing this up then.I respectfully disagree with the idea of certain shows being only accessable to certain people, but if them's the rules, them's the rules.

 

I agree 100%. If Jeff don't want them out then by all means take them down. I love the hell out of these recordings.

 

 

Yeah I was at the show, but I am being a wiseass because I figured most people got the lame joke I was making. It is in no way, shape, or form the definitive version of the song. And there ain't no masses that it would spread joy to. I was just lucky enough to be standing next to Jeff with a guitar in my hand during the tune. Ignore me.I was serious about respecting Jeff's (and Sue's) wishes, though. I want to do what they want to have done. End of story. There's really no debate to be had so far as I see it. Even if some of the counterpoints are valid, and that releasing these shows would raise more money. It doesn't matter. Jeff and Sue don't want it to be done.

 

 

I can tell you the Wilco/Jeff love was spread to me personally from a copy of the 03-03-07 show. That recording means a great deal to me and really furthered my loving of Wilco and Jeffs songs.

[Preferred B]

The funny thing about the whole "elitism" argument is that if show attendees never shared anything online - didn't share any pictures or setlists at all - nobody else would know they'd even taken place. Do you know who was at my house this week? Nope.

[Bart]

The funny thing about the whole "elitism" argument is that if show attendees never shared anything online - didn't share any pictures or setlists at all - nobody else would know they'd even taken place. Do you know who was at my house this week? Nope.

 

Well that's the problem with people. It's very, very hard to not share certain things....with like minded fans for instance.

 

What do they say about secrets?......If you really want to keep a secret, don't tell ANYONE. And if you really don't want something circulated, don't allow it to be taped. I'm not arguing my case anymore, just commenting on human nature.

[Preferred B]

Yeah, that's the "you can't trust anybody" view. And sometimes it's true, but sometimes it's not.

[Guest Speed Racer]

But the shows certainly aren't meant to be secrets. People post setlists and photos and stories that I'm very grateful for (as someone who has zero interest in ever attending one myself), and much of the organizing and news announcements happen here at VC. You can only tell your friends and family Wilco stories so many times before their eyes glaze over, which is exactly why VC is such a great place - we can share, instead of tell. The only difference in this case is that the boot is a keepsake, not a commodity.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Okay, so here's a question that I'm not aiming at anyone in particular:

 

I think it's really interesting how here's a situation where people plunk down a fair amount of money to obtain a "Wilcommodity" that is limited in nature - but it is by no means the only situation in which people do that. Rare vinyl, singles, autographs, conversations with band members pre/post show, and even bootlegs, back in the day and sometimes still now - these are all Wilcommodities that people spend lots of time and energy obtaining, subsequently sharing their quests stories with VC. But this is one of the few that actually elicits a lot of resentment among other VCers when people share the experience, but not the Wilcommodity.

 

Why is that? Is it because other people don't have the time or resources to obtain this? Is it because a portion of the experience CAN, in the literal, physical sense, be shared with others, but cannot in reality? What this is, is essentially a document of someone else's personal connection - in my perception, at least.

 

So why do the Living Room Shows elicit resentment?

[Dude]

Resentment of a few people aside, it's been a wonderful thing over the years has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for charities and it's brought a lot of joy to a pretty sizable number of people, as well as the many families this money has helped. I'm totally grateful that I've had the opportunity to attend a few times, and will continue to attend as long as I have a few dollars set aside for it. I also work very, very hard all year to enjoy this kind of thing.

 

The fact that it's benefiting families who are struggling to make ends and bringing real joy to those families is way more important (to me) than the grumblings of some people on an internet message board over the lack of ability to hear 5 or 6 specific performances out of 400 or so that are freely available.

 

I hope people realize that there are way more important things at stake here than a few recordings, and not allow their limited, negative viewpoint to tarnish something that brings happiness to a lot of people.

[gogo]

From the very moment that the first one of these was discussed on VC (or at least, the first one of these that ever was discussed on VC), people have been making comments like "you're all dicks if you don't tape and share this". That show was in fact NOT recorded, although I think some people here still think that it was, and that we're all total dicks for not sharing it.

 

I think a big part of the reason for this reaction is that these shows are, to a large extent, about the money. They're for charity, they're meant to bring in big bucks, and for that reason, some people who'd like to attend are going to be shut out. It's a shame, but it's a fact.

 

All of those other things you mentioned are available to (most) people, for a lot less cash, than what these shows generally cost.

 

And the flip side of "you're dicks if you don't share" (even if the sharing is just pictures, setlists, etc.), is "you're dicks for bragging about this" or "you're dicks for spending that much money and then singing right over the top of Tweedy" or "you're all creepy for wanting that much personal contact". Although 99.1% of VCers have been very cool with each other about these shows, there are always going to be people on both sides of that bitterness coin.

[Analogman]

Okay, so here's a question that I'm not aiming at anyone in particular:

 

I think it's really interesting how here's a situation where people plunk down a fair amount of money to obtain a "Wilcommodity" that is limited in nature - but it is by no means the only situation in which people do that. Rare vinyl, singles, autographs, conversations with band members pre/post show, and even bootlegs, back in the day and sometimes still now - these are all Wilcommodities that people spend lots of time and energy obtaining, subsequently sharing their quests stories with VC. But this is one of the few that actually elicits a lot of resentment among other VCers when people share the experience, but not the Wilcommodity.

 

Why is that? Is it because other people don't have the time or resources to obtain this? Is it because a portion of the experience CAN, in the literal, physical sense, be shared with others, but cannot in reality? What this is, is essentially a document of someone else's personal connection - in my perception, at least.

 

So why do the Living Room Shows elicit resentment?

 

I think that is what it partly comes down to - the money issue. Also, when some people appear to be closer to the person in question than than you are, and you want that closeness but can't have it, you may get upset.

 

To be honest, I use to be one of the people jabbing. But, I let go of that some time ago. I've met Jeff, and talked to him, and I have seen him play solo, as well as, seen the band several times. That's good enough for me. Is it a different deal if the dude is playing in your living room? I am sure it is. But - I just don't think it's worth getting jacked up over anymore. I sometimes think the whole deal should just be discussed elsewhere, and that would probably cut down on the negativity.

 

As you know, certain topics here are posted over and over again, and debated to death. No surprise there. I suppose what I would do is just pin a thread (like the thread about tickets) that includes some information - such as what Gogo and others put together, a clause about not posting or asking for the shows, lock the thread, and that would be that.

[Sergio Ramshackle]

this exactly why we never made the very first available to anyone.

 

......as it should be...in keeping with our elitist status, it was consistent with our attitude not to make it available.........

[Bart]

So why do the Living Room Shows elicit resentment?

 

I think it's the "non-distribute" rule.

 

I wasn't around in real time in the run up or following any of these shows, so I no nothing about any of these comments:

 

"you're dicks for bragging about this" or "you're dicks for spending that much money and then singing right over the top of Tweedy" or "you're all creepy for wanting that much personal contact"

 

But it's easy for me to see how fans in San Diego or Maine who live these shows vicariously through this board could get resentful. They hear all the build up, they hear about travel arrangments and fans meeting fans for the first time, they see an amazing set list, they read rave reviews, they hear people talking about the recordings and they start counting down the days until they'll be able to hear a copy. Then they get the word that they won't be allowed to hear this stuff. Ever. That would be a crushing blow.

 

Can you imagine if you were a huge Picasso fan and you learned 10 new paintings had just been discovered and you go to your favorite Art fourm, Via Picasso, where other art geeks were raving about the new paintings, only to find out that you weren't allowed to see them? You could only read about how amazing the painting are but not see them. If I were a Picasso fan, that would make me crazy. And resentful.

[Tweedling]

The Living Room Shows are good.

Not respecting Jeff's wishes is bad.

 

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

The logic behind whether or not they should be distributed really doesn't matter.

Jeff wants them to be private...then that's how it should be.