Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Assuming the leak is valid in it's claims, I'm not shocked, I'm disappointed. Particularly because Ortiz was pretty vehement in the punishment that should be dealt out to players caught using PEDs/HGH. I believe he was all for a 1 year ban. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 There is literally nobody I would be surprised about. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Batshit Crazy!! Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 My friend and I were having a discussion the other day about who I thought was usingsteroids on the 03 marlins. I know that would bother some fans, but to me it could never cheapen how that felt just like I would hope this doesn't cheapen how you guys feel about 04. It happened in the context of a game that turned a blind eye to (and at least inadvertantly promoted) steroid use. It's no cheaper than any otherWS win. For the record my 03 marlins user list is this: definitely: pudge, Lowell, urbinamaybe: Alex Gonzalez, derrek lee, Jeff conineprobably not: Luis castillo, Juan Pierre everyone else could go either way. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I expected sooner or later Ortiz would be named. 54 homers in "06" to 0 for the first two months of this season kind of did the trick for me. The whole list should be released now that names are leaking. This should have been dealt with over the winter when Aroid's name came out. I suspect Damon, Nomar,Pedro and a few other past Sox are on the list as well. Most had dramatic drop offs in performance in a relatively short period. I always believed the Red Sox let some of these people go for PED reasons. I think they figured Big Pappi was too much of a fan favorite to dump him but now I expect he'll be gone soon. Link to post Share on other sites
jenbobblehead Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Unfortunate but certainly not all that surprising. So did he stop juicing after that? Or just this year? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I expected sooner or later Ortiz would be named. 54 homers in "06" to 0 for the first two months of this season kind of did the trick for me. The whole list should be released now that names are leaking. This should have been dealt with over the winter when Aroid's name came out. I suspect Damon, Nomar,Pedro and a few other past Sox are on the list as well. Most had dramatic drop offs in performance in a relatively short period. I always believed the Red Sox let some of these people go for PED reasons. I think they figured Big Pappi was too much of a fan favorite to dump him but now I expect he'll be gone soon. I hope by 'PED reasons' you mean 'they stopped taking PED and would lose value'. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Ortiz is due to bat in the upcoming Sox inning at Fenway. This will be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 There is literally nobody I would be surprised about. 100% agreement. Not one player would surprise me, pitcher, position players, stars, scrubs. Heck in all honesty they would almost have to be crazy not to have tried it. Think about it, maybe $10grand a year for the juice and $50 - $100g for trainers (which they most likely already have) to bump your wages into the seven and eight figure range? It's an investment that when it pays off it pays off big. If there was a drug that would allow me to do taxes at a level where I could earn $10mil a year I would seriously think about it. If all of my co-workers and competitors were using it, I would think even harder and most likely do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Ortiz is due to bat in the upcoming Sox inning at Fenway. This will be interesting. Indifference. With a first-pitch double off the wall! ed. Did you catch Joe Pantoliano's (or whatever his name is) ramble during the game last night from the booth? Yoinks. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Ortiz is due to bat in the upcoming Sox inning at Fenway. This will be interesting. He got the usual reception from the crowd, and doubled off the wall on the first pitch. EDIT: Good thing I have Lammy on ignore. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 100% agreement. Not one player would surprise me, pitcher, position players, stars, scrubs. Heck in all honesty they would almost have to be crazy not to have tried it. Think about it, maybe $10grand a year for the juice and $50 - $100g for trainers (which they most likely already have) to bump your wages into the seven and eight figure range? It's an investment that when it pays off it pays off big. If there was a drug that would allow me to do taxes at a level where I could earn $10mil a year I would seriously think about it. If all of my co-workers and competitors were using it, I would think even harder and most likely do it.Not a great analogy. MLB players' salaries bottom out (minimum) in the six figures. Most people can live comfortably/well off of a six-figure income. It's greed and deception when taking illegal/banned substances to gain more, imo. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Not a great analogy. MLB players' salaries bottom out (minimum) in the six figures. Most people can live comfortably/well off of a six-figure income. It's greed and deception when taking illegal/banned substances to gain more, imo. and if the difference is between sleeping on someone's couch, making 1400 a month in AA or making the league minimum or more? Is that greed? Could a player not have wanted to take roids to just be a better player? I don't think Bonds' desire were ever about money, ithink he just was jealous of the attention mark McGwire specifically got and wanted to have that. He also expressed numerous times his desire to get to Ruth so people would stop talking about him, and many criticized him because it was obviously racially motivated, but is that necessarily greed? I think you are vastly oversimplifying the issue. People took steroids for more reasons than just money; hell A-rod alegedly started taking them so he would live up to his contract. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 and if the difference is between sleeping on someone's couch, making 1400 a month in AA or making the league minimum or more? Is that greed? Could a player not have wanted to take roids to just be a better player? I don't think Bonds' desire were ever about money, ithink he just was jealous of the attention mark McGwire specifically got and wanted to have that. He also expressed numerous times his desire to get to Ruth so people would stop talking about him, and many criticized him because it was obviously racially motivated, but is that necessarily greed? I think you are vastly oversimplifying the issue. People took steroids for more reasons than just money; hell A-rod alegedly started taking them so he would live up to his contract.The minor leaguers are tested more frequently (regular basis) than the major leaguers (random). At least that's my understanding. MLers that are signed make a minimum of 6 figures. Sure a player could take PEDs to "just be a better player." I don't assume I know anyone elses motives. The (sic)"vast oversimplification" is that it involves greed and deception- whether that entails wanting to be a better player than your natural abilities allow (greed) or wanting to earn more money as a result of the deception that comes with using banned/illegal substances. Either way works for me. And Arod wanting to "live up to his contract?" That's all about money. ed. re: Bonds. Bonds is the modern Pete Rose in that he thought he was bigger than the game. He had an ego to feed and he fed it with PEDs/HGH. How is cheating to gain more records/stats/money/whatever not greed? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The minor leaguers are tested more frequently (regular basis) than the major leaguers (random). At least that's my understanding. MLers that are signed make a minimum of 6 figures. Sure a player could take PEDs to "just be a better player." I don't assume I know anyone elses motives. The (sic)"vast oversimplification" is that it involves greed and deception- whether that entails wanting to be a better player than your natural abilities allow (greed) or wanting to earn more money as a result of the deception that comes with using banned/illegal substances. Either way works for me. And Arod wanting to "live up to his contract?" That's all about money. Well, yeah. But it's theopposite of what most arguments would say. He already got his money, and wanted to make sure he played up to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is there a way to find out when the Lee trade to Philly was officially announced? Or any trade for that matter? Need help here if anyone knows. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is there a way to find out when the Lee trade to Philly was officially announced? Or any trade for that matter? Need help here if anyone knows. This site usually gives the links to official sources/confirmations:http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 PAPI!Just like the good old days - a 3-run shot to put the Sox ahead 6-5 in the 7th. Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 PAPI!Just like the good old days - a 3-run shot to put the Sox ahead 6-5 in the 7th. Yeah, MLBTradeRumors is a great site. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4366335 Does this prove that all MLB players were/are on PEDs? Or at least if they are any good, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I hope by 'PED reasons' you mean 'they stopped taking PED and would lose value'. No. They knew and let them go. Remember how the Sox put Manny on waivers in the Fall of 03 and no one claimed him? I think they tried to start cleaning house before the word got out about their PED use. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It was widely speculated in 2003 that BOS was trying to clear the $100+M obligation to Manny to open up payroll for a bunch of other big name re-signings at the time (pedro, Nomar, etc.). Also, this was a short time after a bunch of episodes in which Manny, essentially, refused to play and was benched (was out partying on a night he sat for a game claiming he was too sick, etc.). Also, rumor was that Manny and his agent had asked to be traded and there was no secret that he wanted to go to the NYY. Putting him on irrevocable waivers, with that hefty contract, was a pretty easy way for the NYY to pick him up if they were willing to. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No. They knew and let them go. Remember how the Sox put Manny on waivers in the Fall of 03 and no one claimed him? I think they tried to start cleaning house before the word got out about their PED use. you're giving them way too much credit. They have two goals, making profit and winning (in that order.) 'Not having steroid users on the team' isn't anywhere close to the Red Sox or any teams mind when they make personnel decisions. Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The other day the Mariners acquired SS Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh, but today traded LHP Jarrod Washburn to Detroit for two pitching prospects. Are they trying to compete and rebuild at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The other day the Mariners acquired SS Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh, but today traded LHP Jarrod Washburn to Detroit for two pitching prospects. Are they trying to compete and rebuild at the same time?Nice pickup for the Tigers, but pitching isn't one of their needs. Hitting is! Link to post Share on other sites
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