Guest Jules Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 you misread my post. that's ok. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 you misread my post. that's ok. Do you care to clarify? Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah Kevin. I have numbers that have been used since the 1800s or whatever. Unemployment RateNumber of Jobs AddedSales of New HomesSales of Existing HomesManufacturing Jobs addedGovt Jobs AddedPrice of Gas These are numbers that were used all thru 09 and early 10 to beat the presidents head in by FoxNews and were repeated as the gospel. As soon as they start getting better they slowly move to saying they may be manipulated to now saying they are just straight out lies. The thing these people dont realize is that the numbers are submitted by states and most of those are by republicans Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is going to be a long election season. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 This is going to be a long election season. You mean it's not over yet? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Jules, you're glib, man. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 It has always been a gift to Republican leadership that their bluecollar base is easily manipulated by emotional tweaking of the wedge issues or, in this case, that a black man is wasting all of their hard earned tax money. The far right must mislead in order to gain the lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The far right must mislead in order to gain the lead. Is this simply an honest failure to cite a source or are you claiming the Reverend Jackson's words as your own? Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yeah Kevin. I have numbers that have been used since the 1800s or whatever. Unemployment RateNumber of Jobs AddedSales of New HomesSales of Existing HomesManufacturing Jobs addedGovt Jobs AddedPrice of Gas These are numbers that were used all thru 09 and early 10 to beat the presidents head in by FoxNews and were repeated as the gospel. As soon as they start getting better they slowly move to saying they may be manipulated to now saying they are just straight out lies. The thing these people dont realize is that the numbers are submitted by states and most of those are by republicans See you just said the same thing you did before, but with more words. All I am asking for is a reference, a source or sources for your claims. IRDB you seem to be intelligent and impassioned person, but as a credible factual source you are not. It is a big claim that Fox News is misleading people (even more that it is on purpose), and one I am interested in. However before I jump on Fox News Lies I just want some facts. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Is this simply an honest failure to cite a source or are you claiming the Reverend Jackson's words as your own? I've got the source: http://www.foxnews.com/ You can find some misleading things over there. You don't need Rev Jackson to tell you when something is ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
Doug C Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I've got the source: http://www.foxnews.com/ You can find some misleading things over there. You don't need Rev Jackson to tell you when something is ridiculous.Ha ha! It certainly sounded like the rhyming, lilting cadence of Jesse Jackson. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I want to shift the conversation because, well, the "Fox News lies" and "Republicans are evil manipulators" discussions are so old and tired and unproductive. But I was thinking about the Presidency in my lifetime and wondering if we aren't just a little bit spoiled by recent history. The 20-year period between 1980 and 2000 was practically a golden age of Presidents. Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were both excellent Presidents and even Bush Sr. was pretty good, sunk by his convictions that a tax increase was the right thing to do despite his campaign pledge. Of course, one common theme is that these Presidents were a lot closer to the center than anybody wants to admit. The last 12 years have not been good, though. (I know Obama has his supporters, but it's got to be a lot more ideological than based on his performance, I would think.) That being said, this country has gone through worse stretches of leadership and eventually came out of it. It will happen again. We just may have to wait another four years, though, because I'm not sure Romney or Obama are the ones to do it. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Kevin G you want me to lay out how every single one of those numbers have gotten better or where the republicans have started to say they are cooked numbers?? Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I want to shift the conversation because, well, the "Fox News lies" and "Republicans are evil manipulators" discussions are so old and tired and unproductive. But I was thinking about the Presidency in my lifetime and wondering if we aren't just a little bit spoiled by recent history. The 20-year period between 1980 and 2000 was practically a golden age of Presidents. Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were both excellent Presidents and even Bush Sr. was pretty good, sunk by his convictions that a tax increase was the right thing to do despite his campaign pledge. Of course, one common theme is that these Presidents were a lot closer to the center than anybody wants to admit. The last 12 years have not been good, though. (I know Obama has his supporters, but it's got to be a lot more ideological than based on his performance, I would think.) That being said, this country has gone through worse stretches of leadership and eventually came out of it. It will happen again. We just may have to wait another four years, though, because I'm not sure Romney or Obama are the ones to do it. That is a great point, 1980 - 2000, we actually saw the parties try work together. I am not saying it was all Robert Byrd and Trent Lott singing kum by ya by the fire, but there was give and take. The current political climate, becuase of the 24 hour news cycle, the internet, and talk radio, has become so devicisive. I think even with the best president out there we would be stuck in this shit storm we are now. IMHO Obama had the makings of a great leader, but the GOP would rather see Obama fail, and give him no victory, then try to help the country. Obama did not have the stones to use the presidenacy as a bully pulpit and tell the congress to get stuff done. In that respect he did not prove he had the skills in leadership. He thought he could go in and smooth talk everyone, I would rather he (metophorically) punch Mitch McConnell in the face. I think if Obama wins you will see a tougher president, who just doesn't give a fuck. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Kevin G you want me to lay out how every single one of those numbers have gotten better or where the republicans have started to say they are cooked numbers?? Just one example would be fine. Fox News is biased, MSNBC is biased, every media outlet out there is biased. But there is a distinction between bias and deception. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 May 3rd: Limbaugh: The Media And The Obama "Regime" Will Lower Unemployment Rate "By Hook Or By Crook" April 19th: Fox's Bolling Promotes The "Conspiracy" That The Bureau Of Labor Statistics Is "Becoming A Partisan Department" April 13th: Fox's Kelly: "I Get So Confused" By Differing Opinions On Economy -- "How Are We Supposed To Know What's True?" Feb 16th: Palin (On Fox) Still Trying To Figure Out Unemployment Stats: "I Do Not Believe [unemployment Numbers] Are Accurate" I have clips for each of these if you want them and a thousand more examples Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 May 3rd: Limbaugh: The Media And The Obama "Regime" Will Lower Unemployment Rate "By Hook Or By Crook" April 19th: Fox's Bolling Promotes The "Conspiracy" That The Bureau Of Labor Statistics Is "Becoming A Partisan Department" April 13th: Fox's Kelly: "I Get So Confused" By Differing Opinions On Economy -- "How Are We Supposed To Know What's True?" Feb 16th: Palin (On Fox) Still Trying To Figure Out Unemployment Stats: "I Do Not Believe [unemployment Numbers] Are Accurate" I have clips for each of these if you want them and a thousand more examplesMay 3rd: Limbaugh: The Media And The Obama "Regime" Will Lower Unemployment Rate "By Hook Or By Crook" April 19th: Fox's Bolling Promotes The "Conspiracy" That The Bureau Of Labor Statistics Is "Becoming A Partisan Department" April 13th: Fox's Kelly: "I Get So Confused" By Differing Opinions On Economy -- "How Are We Supposed To Know What's True?" Feb 16th: Palin (On Fox) Still Trying To Figure Out Unemployment Stats: "I Do Not Believe [unemployment Numbers] Are Accurate" I have clips for each of these if you want them and a thousand more examples I really hate to get picky, but I am trying get to a deeper point here. From your descriptions, other than the April 19th comments, all of these are opinions. Opinions that, in all likelihood are based on misinformation and lies, but opinions nonetheless. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, wrong or not. They are allowed to express their opinion on the News, on the street corner, whatever. I have said it before and I will say it again. There is a difference between bias and deliberate misinformation. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 i guess youre just fucking with me now but the numbers are the numbers and now that theyre getting better they are saying the numbers are doctored. but see the numbers are reported the same way they always have been so theres your deliberate misinformation anything else i can help you with? what they are saying isnt their opinion. they know damn good and well that theyre lying. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 so i guess if someone says "in my opinion the president is a nazi not born in the US muslim hell bent on the destruction of the US marxist that smoked crack when he way gay in college blah blah blah" that its just another opinion on a subject? oh and trust me they say all that and more Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 After watching and listening to Obama for almost 4 years it just seems like to me he has never stopped campaigning. Don't ask for facts because this is just how I feel. Kinda like he never really started leading. Other than the health care act, which i feel like he was so blinded by getting it through its kinda a shit of a health care reform now. Like someone said above, he'll start acting like a president who doesn't give a "F" and I think that he should have started that earlier. And I can't tell you where it would have been nice to see him act this way because I'm not in politics but I can tell a leader apart from a smoove talking campaigner. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 BleedOrange is right. This Fox News is evil discussion is a waste of time. Bain Capital is in the news again. It is interesting Mitt is running on his experience with Bain as why he would make a good president. He knows the economy and what not. Here is the thing about Bain. Bain's role is to make money for its investors. To go to a struggling company put money in reorganize (i.e. layoff and restructure) and then get maximum profits back for the investors. This is all well and good, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is perfectly legal and Bain has done some great work with companies like Staples. However how does this make Mitt Romney a good President? He maybe a great business man, he has made millions (billions?). But does that translate? His tax plan strongly favors the rich. His plan truly has offered nothing new other than the failed policies of GWB (who was our last CEO and Chief and we know how well that worked out.) Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 This is all well and good, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I bet you could come up with SOME things that are wrong with that. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I bet you could come up with SOME things that are wrong with that. As long as Bain Capital and other venture capital firms, operate within the laws of our country there is nothing "legally" wrong with what they do. It is a business, it makes money, it is capitalism. Is what Bain Capital does good for the country? That is another debate entirely. My question is, does Mitt's time at Bain Capital qualify him to be President of the United States? Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My question is, does Mitt's time at Bain Capital qualify him to be President of the United States? to be President? Sure, why not.To be a good President? Who the hell knows. He seems to have done a decent job of being governor of Massachusetts though, so I'm not sure why the focus would be only on his experience at Bain. Link to post Share on other sites
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