Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How much money does the federal government actually give for hiring teachers, police and firefighters? Are those not usually paid for by local governments? Am I missing something? And when the federal dollars are spent...then what happens to those teachers, police and fire fighters?Federal money isn't 'free'. Beyond the fact that the Government actually produces no wealth and is spending our money, you take their coin, they have control.It's a sticky wicket, but I can't help but believe that local governments have a better feel for the needs of their clientele (i.e. their citizent) than a government functionay in Washington. Government isn't inherently bad...to the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I think you failed to get the point of the private sector is doing fine. You mention your company, who in the height of the recession slashed worked force. Then you go on to mention neighbors etc. who have been touched by this. My question to you is, have you looked recently at their profits? I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they are up. They're not. Not even close. Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Another stimulus......? I don't know about that. Does anyone believe that the American people are ready to hear that again? And I hate to feel like I should mention I'm not trying to sound like an ass I just really don't think they are and I'm wondering if any of you disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Another stimulus......? I don't know about that. Does anyone believe that the American people are ready to hear that again? And I hate to feel like I should mention I'm not trying to sound like an ass I just really don't think they are and I'm wondering if any of you disagree. Another stimulus, is needed. I would argue the last stimulus was not big enough. Are the American people ready to hear that, prolly not. But it is needed. And when the federal dollars are spent...then what happens to those teachers, police and fire fighters?Federal money isn't 'free'. Beyond the fact that the Government actually produces no wealth and is spending our money, you take their coin, they have control.It's a sticky wicket, but I can't help but believe that local governments have a better feel for the needs of their clientele (i.e. their citizent) than a government functionay in Washington.Government isn't inherently bad...to the contrary. Local governments do not have the money to hire, so Obama is sugguesting the Federal governement help. I don't think it is an blank check proposal, also if memory serves the money for teachers etc would come form cuts to other programs. This sugguestion and other stimulus type programs are ment to kick start the economy. Here is the way it goes, government hires people > people have more money to buy things > businesses need to make more things > business hire more people > business and people pay more (not higher taxes but more people are paying taxes) to the governement in taxes > etc. The private sector is not hiring (we have established that), so why not allow the goverment to hire where needed? It would jump start the economy. Lowering taxes would potentially do the same thing (but instead of gov't giving money to local government they just wouldn't get as much). Also on lowering taxes that was part of the last stimulus and the business did not hire, but the program part of the stimulus did give people jobs. Also to the point about federal gov't doesn't spend money on teachers, etc. Here is an article from HuffPo that spells it out. It is obviously anti romney, but what on HuffPo isn't. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/mitt-romney-federal-spending-police-teachers-firefighters_n_1590872.html Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I think you really have no idea. See above. Just like with the affordable care act, and just about every other government program, the private sector nearly always makes out like bandits when the government has a program. So we can close down all government programs, grants, etc., but the private sector will be the first to get hurt, as will tons of private sector jobs created by the so called "job creators". Any business that needs government programs to survive is probably not very strong to begin with and should just fold anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 we had been coasting along just fine without these problems before the advent of rap music. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How much money does the federal government actually give for hiring teachers, police and firefighters? Are those not usually paid for by local governments? Am I missing something?Mostly local governments DO pay for local employees such as these, but special initiatives and grants also pay for them too, particularly teachers. Depending on what kind of teachers there are state and federal grants that do pay for categorical teachers (special ed, bilingual, enrichment, etc.) and in some cases and under some government mandates those teachers salaries are picked up by federal (or state) funds.Any business that needs government programs to survive is probably not very strong to begin with and should just fold anyway.Fair enough. Let's let agribusiness, energy, highway construction, private education, etc fold.. Fuck it. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Let's let agribusiness do you just mean the giant shitpiles of money we've wasted paying for ethanol, which will never, ever be a viable resource, or did you mean agriculture on a broader scale? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Fuck it. LouieB Now we're getting somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 do you just mean the giant shitpiles of money we've wasted paying for ethanol, which will never, ever be a viable resource, or did you mean agriculture on a broader scale?Take your pick I guess. I don't know every farm/agribusiness subsidy out there, but i know there are lots. Ethanol is a slightly viable resource though, since I often put 10% of it in my car when I fill up most places in Illinois, this being a big ethanol.state. The general point is that government subsidies (not to mention tax breaks) are a regular part of many businesses (we didn't even mention healthcare.) Incidently this would also include the private not for private (and some for profit programs (such as charter schools) that provide all sorts of education, counseling, healthcare etc. Heck even prisons and detention centers are now run by private organizations, not to mention the military contractors of ALL sorts. The list is endless actually. There are some businesses that don't have government contracts, but most of those probably provide straight up consumer goods, but the rest. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just because somebody has added ethanol to your gasoline does not make it economically viable as an alternative fuel. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just because somebody has added ethanol to your gasoline does not make it economically viable as an alternative fuel.As usual I agree. it must be economically profitable for someone though!!! More government subsidies? For sure. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 it must be economically profitable for someone though!!! I bet it's Jules. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Nope. Ethanol is a scam. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Lots of things are scams, but people do them and profit by them anyway. Hell if we did way with scams the entire economy would close up shop. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Does anyone here still buy the "job creator" line of bullshit? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Well some people do create/add jobs, so why is it bullshit. Me, for example. I have hired over 100 people in the last 12 months. Where is my recognition and visit from the President? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Hiring someone is not the same as creating a job. Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Well some people do create/add jobs, so why is it bullshit. Me, for example. I have hired over 100 people in the last 12 months. Where is my recognition and visit from the President? Good for you. But did you do it because you got tax breaks or because there was an increase in demand for your product/service? I guess I should clarify what I consider bullshit -- the line of reasoning that says giving "job creators" tax breaks will result in increased hiring. No business operates that way. You hire people because demand for your goods/services exceeds your current capacity. Yeah, depending on the industry you might hire a few more people for R&D if you have extra cash... but that has a relatively minor impact on overall employment numbers. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Well some people do create/add jobs, so why is it bullshit. Me, for example. I have hired over 100 people in the last 12 months. Where is my recognition and visit from the President? youre an HR Director?? Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'll bet he's a small business owner. Do Human Resource Directors do a lot of hiring? Hahaha Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Good for you. But did you do it because you got tax breaks or because there was an increase in demand for your product/service? The latter. youre an HR Director?? good one. Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 but let me guess..............you wont tell us what you do or what company you own?? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 we make stuff Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ah, the secretive pride of an outspoken 'job creator'. Link to post Share on other sites
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