IRememberDBoon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 im pretty sure anyone with a brain (except my republican friends) will be sticking with The President to keep working towards a better tommorrow Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The choice couldn't be any clearer... Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 great graphic! Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sparky, I'm fairly certain you & Mr. Paul wouldn't see eye to eye on nuclear regulation. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sparky, I'm fairly certain you & Mr. Paul wouldn't see eye to eye on nuclear regulation. Maybe not. No one's perfect... But are you happy with perpetual war, the destruction of civil liberties, endless bailouts, corporate cronyism, the destruction of the dollar, the outsourcing of all our jobs, the collapsing banking system, the evergrowing welfare state and the staggering 15.2 trillion dollar debt, to name a few things all of the other candidates either support or have done nothing about? I'm sure you are not. Paul is the only one to address these issues. By the way, the results of the election are already in... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AP2BjpIYJLw Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The choice couldn't be any clearer... A Mitt man, eh? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 On Ron Paul: snowball, meet Hell.Even the Republican primary voters aren't voting for him on any meaningful level. He should run as a spoiler third party candidate, a la Ross Perot. No way will he get the GOP nomination. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 On Ron Paul: snowball, meet Hell.Even the Republican primary voters aren't voting for him on any meaningful level. He should run as a spoiler third party candidate, a la Ross Perot. No way will he get the GOP nomination. Ron Paul is a modern day Harold Stassen, except with nutty ideas and a much more limited resume. Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Paul's running as a third party would really hurt the republicans. with his son in leadership position in republican party, i doubt he would do that. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Ron Paul is a modern day Harold Stassen, except with nutty ideas and a much more limited resume. What's so nutty about advocating that our leaders obey the Constitution? Is it nutty to desire a return to a more free enterprise based economy? Is it nutty to have a sound currency or do you think it is nutty to keep printing money at such a rate that will eventually erode its' value to the point of destroying it through inflation? Is it nutty to cease the endless wars we are fighting or is it nutty to bomb a new country every month and spend trillions on new wars and corrupt dictators? Is it nutty not to want to be sexually assaulted or subjected to body scans at airports or to be arrested and jailed without a warrant or the right to an attorney or is it nutty to trust the government to protect your civil liberties. Is it nutty to demand fair trials for American citizens accused of crimes or is it nutty that they be assassinated on the whim of the President? Is it nutty not to want the government to shut down web sites on the internet it decides are dangerous without due process or is it nutty to allow the government to be able to read your emails, track your facebook page and listen in on your cell phone conversations? I could go on but you get the point. I think it's nuts to dismiss what Ron Paul has to say. I think it's nuts that our country is being taken down the path it has been on for the past few decades. None of the candidates from either party other than Ron Paul even dare to address these issues. That makes him nuts? I think it makes him one of the last American heroes. Well, I got that off my chest... Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It's probably nutty to try to do those things all at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The things you listed are all pretty reasonable to very reasonable. A lazy wikipedia search reveals a few of the less appealing aspects of Paul's platform: - cut the top corporate tax rate to 15% (down from 35%)- permanently extend the Bush administration tax cuts- eliminate all foreign aid- considers Social Security unconstitutional- introduced the Sanctity of Life Act, which would have life defined as beginning at conception at the Federal level- In addition to closing the Department of the Interior, his "Restore America" budget plan proposes selling off at least $40 billion worth of public lands such as national parks, and other federal assets, between 2013 and 2016 So, he masquerades as some great libertarian, but actually, his positions show him to be just another "the free market will solve all problems" right wing corporatist Republican. If by some miracle he got the nomination, I would fight very hard to make sure he never gets elected POTUS. Link to post Share on other sites
Magnetized Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Getting off the topic of Ron Paul for a moment, in my opinion the most reasoned and enlightening political discourse available right now is on Bill Moyers' new show, Moyers and Company. It's on public television but not all NPR affiliates are airing it. I highly recommend seeking it out, though. It's aired in most markets on Friday nights, I think, but it's often repeated, and you can check out the website to watch entire episodes. There have only been 3 episodes so far, but the first one (on winner-take-all politics) and last week's (featuring former Citigroup chairman John Reed) were just devastatingly good. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The things you listed are all pretty reasonable to very reasonable. A lazy wikipedia search reveals a few of the less appealing aspects of Paul's platform: - cut the top corporate tax rate to 15% (down from 35%)- permanently extend the Bush administration tax cuts- eliminate all foreign aid- considers Social Security unconstitutional- introduced the Sanctity of Life Act, which would have life defined as beginning at conception at the Federal level- In addition to closing the Department of the Interior, his "Restore America" budget plan proposes selling off at least $40 billion worth of public lands such as national parks, and other federal assets, between 2013 and 2016 So, he masquerades as some great libertarian, but actually, his positions show him to be just another "the free market will solve all problems" right wing corporatist Republican. If by some miracle he got the nomination, I would fight very hard to make sure he never gets elected POTUS. High corporate tax rates discourage investment and new business from starting and send business and jobs overseas. Do you want the government to spend your money or do you want to spend it or invest it or save it the way you choose? There is nothing wrong with low taxes. Send the treasury a check if you feel you aren't being taxed enough. He is an OBGYN and is sworn to protect life, what is the problem there? Are you proud of the 40 million abortions performed in this country since 1973? How did all that foreign aid we sent to Egypt, Libya and Iraq work out for you? Ron Paul trying to sell the National Parks would be like Obama trying to ban guns. It would not be a very popular thing and not very likely to happen. Do you actually believe we need more government to tell you how to live your lives or do you think you are able to make those decisions for yourself? Do you think the war against drugs is working or does it result in more deaths and wasteful spending? Don't you realize Race to the Top is just another name for the failed NCLB? Obama's presidency has been nothing but an extension of the Bush administration if you compare them side by side. I get the feeling your candidate for president is the one who has expanded our military presence and attacks around the world, assassinated American citizens without due process and continues to run a virtual torture chamber in Cuba. He seems to consider the innocent killed by his drone attacks to be insignificant or not important. He supported the extension of the Patriot Act and signed the NDAA with its' provisions allowing the arrest and detention of American citizens without due process. He is pushing for SOPA and has signed on to the international ACTA treaty which will destroy the freedom of the internet as we know it. Under his watch the numbers of those on food stamps, unemployment compensation and other forms of government assistance have increased in record numbers. His pals at the treasury have bailed out their friends at Goldman Sachs on your dollar. He has expanded the national debt faster than any other president in our nations history with no results to show for it except more debt and a devalued dollar. Aren't you tired of crony capitalism and corporate socialism for the select few? That is not free enterprise. Free enterprise has not existed in this country for almost a century. Why not give it a chance? Do you think all those folks on food stamps and receiving welfare of some form and another are going to give us jobs? Ron Paul does not masquerade as a libertarian, he is one. All the other candidates either Democrat or Republican all believe in big government. Listen to what Obama, Romney and Gingrich have said and done. They are all essentially the same. I am not saying Ron Paul is perfect. No one is. On balance, I find more issues that I agree with Ron Paul on that are important to me than the others. I'm not apologizing for that. I am sure there are some things Obama has done that have made you liberal supporters upset. Hell, I was one of them at one time. But enough is enough. To continue to pursue and support the same failed policies over and over again is madness. If Obama was George Bush there would be no way you could honestly say you could support what he has done the past three years. I voted for the guy. Not again. I will not vote for any of the other candidates. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil as they say. I always tell myself to stay away from these topics and threads but I keep getting sucked in. If anyone can get a full version of the upcoming Austin City Limits performance on CD, PM me please so I can obtain a copy. For some damned reason none of the PBS stations in the New Haven area carry the show. It must be Ron Paul's fault... Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 What's so nutty about advocating that our leaders obey the Constitution? Is it nutty to desire a return to a more free enterprise based economy? Is it nutty to have a sound currency or do you think it is nutty to keep printing money at such a rate that will eventually erode its' value to the point of destroying it through inflation? Is it nutty to cease the endless wars we are fighting or is it nutty to bomb a new country every month and spend trillions on new wars and corrupt dictators? Is it nutty not to want to be sexually assaulted or subjected to body scans at airports or to be arrested and jailed without a warrant or the right to an attorney or is it nutty to trust the government to protect your civil liberties. Is it nutty to demand fair trials for American citizens accused of crimes or is it nutty that they be assassinated on the whim of the President? Is it nutty not to want the government to shut down web sites on the internet it decides are dangerous without due process or is it nutty to allow the government to be able to read your emails, track your facebook page and listen in on your cell phone conversations? I could go on but you get the point. I think it's nuts to dismiss what Ron Paul has to say. I think it's nuts that our country is being taken down the path it has been on for the past few decades. None of the candidates from either party other than Ron Paul even dare to address these issues. That makes him nuts? I think it makes him one of the last American heroes. Well, I got that off my chest... Yeah...I'd probably vote for him. I have a deep desire to drink unpasteurized milk. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Yeah...I'd probably vote for him. I have a deep desire to drink unpasteurized milk. I drink almond milk but since you mentioned it. Do you need the government to tell you what to drink or what not to drink? If someone wants to drink unpasteurized milk so be it. Do you want the government to tell you what to eat or not to eat as well? I think not. Some of you sure think you need the government to tell you what to do to survive. I think I can do fine by the government leaving me the hell alone. That is the point Ron Paul is trying to make...basically the government that governs best is the one that governs least. That was the intent of the Constitution... Some fun facts for your enjoyment... Facts about Dr. Ron Pauls Political Life…He became politically active the day Richard Nixon took the USD off the Gold Standard.He has NEVER voted to raise taxes.He has NEVER voted for an unbalanced budget.He has NEVER voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.He has NEVER voted to raise congressional pay.He has NEVER taken a government-paid junket.He has NEVER voted to increase the power of the executive branch.He voted AGAINST the Patriot Act.He voted AGAINST regulating the Internet.He voted AGAINST the Iraq war.He has NEVER voted for any legislation that would limit your freedom to eat the food you choose or take whatever vitamin supplement you choose.He DOES NOT participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. Treasury every year.For those who are afraid of drinking milk not approved by the government... The Weston A. Price Foundation's Campaign for Real Milk explains in the article "What Is Real Milk?," available on its website (accessed Aug. 15, 2011): "Pasteurization destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamin content, denatures fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamins C, B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria, promotes pathogens and is associated with allergies, increased tooth decay, colic in infants, growth problems in children, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease and cancer...Pasteurization was instituted in the 1920s to combat TB [tuberculosis], infant diarrhea, undulant fever and other diseases caused by poor animal nutrition and dirty production methods. But times have changed and modern stainless steel tanks, milking machines, refrigerated trucks and inspection methods make pasteurization absolutely unnecessary for public protection." Joseph Mercola, DO, an osteopathic physician, stated in his Apr. 24, 2004 article "The Real Reasons Why Raw Milk Is Becoming More Popular," published on his website: "Raw milk is a highly health-promoting food... While it is certainly possible to become sick from drinking contaminated raw milk, it is also possible to become sick from almost any food source. But it seems that raw milk has been unfairly singled out as a risk, when only a very small risk exists...Raw milk is an outstanding source of nutrients including beneficial bacteria such as lactobacillus acidophilus, vitamins and enzymes, and it is, in my estimation, the finest source of calcium available...People who have been allergic to pasteurized milk for many years can typically tolerate and even thrive on raw milk. Raw milk is truly one of the most profoundly healthy foods you can consume, and you'll feel the difference once you start to drink it." Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 What do you think Representative Paul opines about public employee unions? I'm just screwing with ya Sparky...any guy who makes a statement like this should be lauded: "No one talks about the real ethics disaster in Washington. It's that many members of Congress will listen to any argument against a bill except for two: that it's not moral or that it's not Constitutional." -- Rep. Ron Paul But a guy making such a statement will never be elected to any higher office.The world needs the Don Quixotes... Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Who was the last republican president to actually execute a plan for a smaller federal government? Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Who was the last republican president to actually execute a plan for a smaller federal government? Calvin Coolidge I think... Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 What do you think Representative Paul opines about public employee unions? I'm just screwing with ya Sparky...any guy who makes a statement like this should be lauded: "No one talks about the real ethics disaster in Washington. It's that many members of Congress will listen to any argument against a bill except for two: that it's not moral or that it's not Constitutional." -- Rep. Ron Paul But a guy making such a statement will never be elected to any higher office.The world needs the Don Quixotes... As you probably know from previous discussions I belong to a public union. Which proves I don't agree with every thing Ron Paul believes or says. But the support he demonstrates for civil liberties, sound currency, peace and many of the other positions he holds, far outweigh the differences. I can't support or vote for a person who expands war, illustrates a willingness to destroy our basic constitutional rights or recklessly throws our nation's wealth down a sink hole. I don't mind being messed with. If I did, I wouldn't be typing this. I get messed with everyday in my job (120 high school kids). I can put up with a few barbs thrown at me on a music forum. By the way, I played Wilco music all week in my Global Issues classes while the kiddies worked on a map project. I am winning over the hearts and minds of America's youth one Wilco song at a time... Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You may agree with what he's focusing on. In some ways he's anti-crony capitalism. The problem is, he'd try to do away with so many gov't agencies and regulations, cronyism will cease to matter. Keep in mind, this is coming for one of the more conservative people around here. He's very eloquent and appealing in describing the libertarian philosophy, but I honestly don't think you've thought through the complete ramifications his policies would bring. Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You may agree with what he's focusing on. In some ways he's anti-crony capitalism. The problem is, he'd try to do away with so many gov't agencies and regulations, cronyism will cease to matter. Keep in mind, this is coming for one of the more conservative people around here. He's very eloquent and appealing in describing the libertarian philosophy, but I honestly don't think you've thought through the complete ramifications his policies would bring. I would not expect his policies to ever be accepted or implemented100%. He has no support from the Republican establishment let alone the Democrat establishment for that matter. We need a balance and what he has to offer provides us with a starting point for bringing America back to a more liberty and peace loving society. The fact that the establishment ignores him, ridicules him, gives him no credit and lies about him means he must be doing something right as far as I am concerned. They fear him because they do not own him. I don't actually believe they would ever allow him to ever get the nomination let alone actually become president. If that miraculously should occur, he would be advised to stay out of airplanes and open limos... Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky speaks Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This is pretty amazing even if you don't agree with him. From 2002.. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 As you probably know from previous discussions I belong to a public union. Which proves I don't agree with every thing Ron Paul believes or says. But the support he demonstrates for civil liberties, sound currency, peace and many of the other positions he holds, far outweigh the differences. I can't support or vote for a person who expands war, illustrates a willingness to destroy our basic constitutional rights or recklessly throws our nation's wealth down a sink hole. I don't mind being messed with. If I did, I wouldn't be typing this. I get messed with everyday in my job (120 high school kids). I can put up with a few barbs thrown at me on a music forum. By the way, I played Wilco music all week in my Global Issues classes while the kiddies worked on a map project. I am winning over the hearts and minds of America's youth one Wilco song at a time... That's the true road to world domination...one kid at a time. The young unformed minds need to be exposed to the greatness that is Wilco Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Sparky whats wrong? The President doesnt love peace and liberty enough for you? Link to post Share on other sites
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