Sky Blue Sky - Confession of a Relatively New Fan

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Just before SBS came out, I recall some JT concert banter about making "a dirty little soul record" or something. There are some soul elements in most of the songs. Hear the soul in vocals more than I do the music... and perhaps there may lie a disconnect. Dunno.

 

Read a slew of threads here over the years and I don't recall reading/seeing much said about the soulfulness... blue-eyed soul or country soul on SBS. Ballsy move IMO given the band's....demograhics.

 

Wished the Thanks I Get/We Can Make It Better and that song from the Heros...Glad It's Over would have made SBS.

[Autumnteeth]

 

 

That's it! To me, that nails why Being There is brilliant and great and Sky Blue Sky falls short.

The unconventional jams and sounds in some songs on Sky Blue Sky might fit wonderfully on other records, but for me they stand out like sore thumbs and ruin the vibe of SBS.

 

I believe that Sky Blue Sky was meant to be a recovery/acceptance/moving-forward record that had no studio trickery and was meant to sound natural and beautiful. I really like that this album was made and that Jeff/Wilco attempted a "pretty" record. I just wish it went further in that direction (One True Vine...a beautiful song...should been on the record in my opinion).

 

It sounds as if Jeff and the band feared making a record that was TOO soft and bland, so they added some "edgy" elements (noodling jam on Side With the Seeds, herky-jerky sounds on Shake It Off, the almost-silly wanky guitar and made-for-concert end jam on Walken, and the awkward drum/keyboard stops and starts on Hate It Here) to give the record more attitude or more fun. And that's a good thought by the band. But FOR ME, the specific arrangements and ideas for those songs just are not good.

 

If those handful of songs, for example, coulda had a sound like Outtasite Outtamind, Summerteeth (the song) or Standing O (maybe the most under-rated Whole Love song based on things I've read), I think Sky Blue Sky would sail smoothly start to finish. But as it is, the contrast in styles is too jarring for me. The album just sounds messy in parts.

 

Being There, some could argue, gets a little messy with Misunderstood, Kingpin and Dreamer In My Dreams. But I'd hugely disagree. Misunderstood is an alert to the listener of what's to come. Kingpin and Dreamer in My Dreams were placed on 2nd disc, and seem to fit the vibe of the more-loose sounding b-side-ish 2nd disc.

 

Couldn't agree more. Misunderstood is like the tornado warning siren that lets the listener know this album will blow you away.

[spongebob]

Just before SBS came out, I recall some JT concert banter about making "a dirty little soul record" or something.

 

Wished the Thanks I Get/We Can Make It Better and that song from the Heros...Glad It's Over would have made SBS.

 

Absolutely.

[LaughingDog]

It's too bad for the people who "hate" SBS. There is such a thing as a "last place" Wilco album when I'm making my Wilco list (which is continually changing), but I NEVER hate any Wilco album, ever. Ever. Actually, come to think of it, I don't even hate any Wilco songs. I really, really mean that.

 

I think that's why I love them so much. It's a real shame that fans of Wilco can hate one of their albums so much.

[bourbonbreath]

the record contains some terrific songs... You Are My Face and Impossible Germany are classic Wilco numbers. It doesn't have the power of BT, ST, YHF, and AGIB but blows AM and W(TA) out of the water. It is a perfect record to play throughout the house... and my kids don't get scared like they do when i blast Misunderstood.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

It's a real shame that fans of Wilco can hate one of their albums so much.

Why?

[LaughingDog]

I don't get it... why not? If you are a Wilco lover (and no, this is not read "Being There" lover), you should be able to tolerate anything they put out within reason, really. Some b-sides here and there, sure, but to hate an entire album? Hate implies intolerance, and honestly, saying Sky Blue Sky as an album is intolerable isn't within reason for a Wilco fan. That is my opinion, you have yours.

 

I said it was only "a shame" because people can have opinions and not affect mine - but it is a shame knowing that at a Wilco concert, a few select fans shiver out of disgust when an SBS song is played. That is a shame.

[bleedorange]

But has anyone even said they "hate" SBS other than the implication from the original poster?

[badger]

I said it was only "a shame" because people can have opinions and not affect mine - but it is a shame knowing that at a Wilco concert, a few select fans shiver out of disgust when an SBS song is played. That is a shame.

 

Maybe that's true, but I really enjoy hearing SBS songs live (even the ones I don't particularly like on the record) and that's what, over time, has rendered it, as an album, almost unlistenable for me.

 

I was really excited about the "back to basics" approach when it came out, and still believe that overall, it contains a solid set of songs, bar the few oft-quoted stinkers. However, the live versions really, really rock, in comparison to what I hear as a much more tentative approach on the record (much as Cryptique described, a few posts back), despite the "liveness" of its recording.

 

As a result, I think it's the least definitive WIlco album. I've heard plenty of great live versions of Wilco songs which didn't stop the originals from sounding great. Unfortunately, as far as I'm concerned, the live versions of SBS songs, almost without exception, have ended up making the recorded ones sound lame. So I definitely don't hate SBS, I just find it irrelevant.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I said it was only "a shame" because people can have opinions and not affect mine - but it is a shame knowing that at a Wilco concert, a few select fans shiver out of disgust when an SBS song is played. That is a shame.

 

Who said they shiver out of disgust when they hear an SBS song? Have people been roiling in the aisles of shows the past four years and I've missed it? Again, you're reading a lot into this thread that no one has said. The only song from SBS that might make me shiver has been played live a whopping 1 time, leading me to believe that Wilco doesn't really care for it either.

 

Some songs on SBS are decent, some are good, some really miss the mark. The album itself captures a mood that one could best describe as "low blood-pressure," or as ction said a few years back, a recorded nap. Some people like their rock music to sound like a nap, others don't. No one's shivering or hating or any of those things, they're just listening to other albums while they post on a message board.

[cryptique]

If you are a Wilco lover [...] you should be able to tolerate anything they put out within reason, really. Some b-sides here and there, sure, but to hate an entire album? Hate implies intolerance, and honestly, saying Sky Blue Sky as an album is intolerable isn't within reason for a Wilco fan. That is my opinion, you have yours.

This is simply illogical. I'm a huge Rolling Stones fan and I hate a number of their albums, which is to say that I have no interest in listening to them ever again. I could say the same for R.E.M., Bob Dylan, and several others.

 

It is possible to be a big fan of an artist and have absolutely no use whatsoever for some of that artist's work. Happens all the time, actually.

 

it is a shame knowing that at a Wilco concert, a few select fans shiver out of disgust when an SBS song is played. That is a shame.

Everybody's gotta piss sometime.

[OOO]

I like hooks. I like catchy things that make my ears smile without me thinking about it. I feel like there were not a lot of hooks on SBS. Its a nice sounding album and the songs are well put together, etc. I just want more hooks!

[Autumnteeth]

Boredom is the last defense of pretense. Everone is entitled to their opinion, but this album is beautiful in every way. In no way wil I diminish anyone's opinion, because music is in the ear of the beholder, but this album can take a grey day and make it sunny. There is something about this record that just puts a smile on my face.

[LaughingDog]

But has anyone even said they "hate" SBS other than the implication from the original poster?

Unless one: I read wrong, or two: people were being sarcastic and I read it out of context (dumb on my part), then yes, people have said in this thread they hated this album. If I didn't get true evidence of a Wilco fan saying they hate SBS, I wouldn't have posted.

 

 

Maybe that's true, but I really enjoy hearing SBS songs live (even the ones I don't particularly like on the record) and that's what, over time, has rendered it, as an album, almost unlistenable for me.

Oh, I can definitely relate to that. I listened to the Sky Blue Sky DVD version of Impossible Germany before hearing the album version, and I honestly couldn't tolerate it for a very long time. I love it now, though, because I find the process being opposite for me. After hearing a song by a band live, I usually really love the album version as well. I could see how it would be possible that that would never have happened, though. Very possible. This is a very legitimate reason to not like (don't read "hate") Sky Blue Sky as an album, I have to admit.

 

 

Who said they shiver out of disgust when they hear an SBS song? Have people been roiling in the aisles of shows the past four years and I've missed it? Again, you're reading a lot into this thread that no one has said. The only song from SBS that might make me shiver has been played live a whopping 1 time, leading me to believe that Wilco doesn't really care for it either.

 

Some songs on SBS are decent, some are good, some really miss the mark. The album itself captures a mood that one could best describe as "low blood-pressure," or as ction said a few years back, a recorded nap. Some people like their rock music to sound like a nap, others don't. No one's shivering or hating or any of those things, they're just listening to other albums while they post on a message board.

It was a bad metaphor for "Wilco fans don't like Sky Blue Sky songs". I completely missed the point that alot of songs off Sky Blue Sky sound, well, livelier when played live. I guess that is the nature of live music. I read an interview where Jeff mentioned that when recording SBS, he wanted to make it sound "classic", "warm", and "analog" as possible. During my first month with SBS, that was my problem with it - the kind of low fidelity, dull quality of the recordings. Over time, my mind has grown accustomed to listening to those particular songs like that.

 

This is simply illogical. I'm a huge Rolling Stones fan and I hate a number of their albums, which is to say that I have no interest in listening to them ever again. I could say the same for R.E.M., Bob Dylan, and several others.

 

It is possible to be a big fan of an artist and have absolutely no use whatsoever for some of that artist's work. Happens all the time, actually.

 

 

Everybody's gotta piss sometime.

I dunno, I just don't find it feasible to call yourself a "true fan" if you absolutely loathe a whole album by a band or artist. Whatever the exact parameters of the "true fan" cliche are, I don't know. I do know that for me, one of the parameters is definitely being able to at least tolerate every album put out by a band. I mean, that really is all an artist has to stand by - their discography.

 

Maybe I just have yet to find a band I absolutely love where I could erase an album of theirs off the planet and be fine with it. I'll get back to you the day that I do.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I dunno, I just don't find it feasible to call yourself a "true fan" if you absolutely loathe a whole album by a band or artist.

Oh boy

 

[Guest Speed Racer]

Unless one: I read wrong, or two: people were being sarcastic and I read it out of context (dumb on my part), then yes, people have said in this thread they hated this album. If I didn't get true evidence of a Wilco fan saying they hate SBS, I wouldn't have posted.

 

Where? Who?

 

edit: if you're referring to bleedorange's "I have hatred" remark, I'm 98% sure that was in response to the page of Volkswagen/SBS puns.

 

Boredom is the last defense of pretense.

 

Then,

 

In no way wil I diminish anyone's opinion,

 

So you think people are being defensive when they say they don't like it, but that's not diminishing their opinion?

[smells like flowers]

I dunno, I just don't find it feasible to call yourself a "true fan" if you absolutely loathe a whole album by a band or artist. Whatever the exact parameters of the "true fan" cliche are, I don't know. I do know that for me, one of the parameters is definitely being able to at least tolerate every album put out by a band. I mean, that really is all an artist has to stand by - their discography.

.

Can't remember who said this: "Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is."

I think that Wilco fans -- lovers of Wilco, if you will, just have intense feelings about the band's offerings. Feelings made more intense by their big love for their favorite albums. So the ones that are somewhat disappointing create a more intensely felt disappointment.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I would agree with that entirely. If you think that an artist's emotions speak for yours, and then they come up with something that you identify as pithy and shallow, then you feel alone or at least a little abandoned - even embarrassed? - by the lyrical offering. If you like to rock out, and you talk about how much you love rocking out to a band, and their new album comes out and opens with...a smooth jazz song about everything being just fine, or not, either way, then you feel a little betrayed. And to know that the artist you love is capable of writing songs that seem as though they were written just for you, only to buy an album full of songs that sound like they were written just for someone else - that's disappointing.

 

Succinct point being, if you have personally identified with a band's lyrics, emotions and musical taste, and then they come out with something that is the opposite of all of that, disliking that doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you consistent in your tastes and musical desires.

[LaughingDog]

Oh boy

 

 

 

 

Where? Who?

 

edit: if you're referring to bleedorange's "I have hatred" remark, I'm 98% sure that was in response to the page of Volkswagen/SBS puns.

I think that's the one I saw, I can't remember. I know I saw something like that while skimming through. You would probably know better than I do so if there isn't anyone in this thread that said they hated this album and meant it, then my point doesn't stand in regard to any Wilco fan I've seen before... but my sentiments attached with a Wilco fan hating SBS still stand.

 

I would agree with that entirely. If you think that an artist's emotions speak for yours, and then they come up with something that you identify as pithy and shallow, then you feel alone or at least a little abandoned - even embarrassed? - by the lyrical offering. If you like to rock out, and you talk about how much you love rocking out to a band, and their new album comes out and opens with...a smooth jazz song about everything being just fine, or not, either way, then you feel a little betrayed. And to know that the artist you love is capable of writing songs that seem as though they were written just for you, only to buy an album full of songs that sound like they were written just for someone else - that's disappointing.

 

Succinct point being, if you have personally identified with a band's lyrics, emotions and musical taste, and then they come out with something that is the opposite of all of that, disliking that doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you consistent in your tastes and musical desires.

Never said anyone was a bad person, just said it was a shame. I don't know if I'm able to agree with you lyrically, or maybe musically even. People change - one lone songwriter is simply unable to write about one specific emotion, sentiment, or thing for eight consecutive albums. It just isn't possible, and if an artist were to do it, I'm not sure if I'd like that so much, no matter how much I could identify with it. Diversity is a huge distinguishing factor between lasting, legendary musical artists and ones that fade out into nothingness. Wilco has picked up fans from every one of their albums, that I am absolutely positive of (I know people that have gotten into them through WTA, heck). Clinging onto the hope that a band will continue to make similar records throughout their entire career is kind of a damaging way to be a fan, isn't it? Damaging in the sense that the band will always have that demographic of people wishing for that, and for the individual because they will be let down so much.

 

But you know what, after typing all of that, I kind of missed the biggest point that SBS dislikers have - they just don't like SBS musically. That's okay, I don't think I've ever said it wasn't. Putting it at the bottom of the list because you don't like it is one thing, putting it at the bottom of the list because it's different from their past albums is another.

 

 

And just to address again the whole "you're not a true fan if you hate a whole album by an artist" statement I made, I honestly have never had any similar experience with that. I don't really see how you could, either. At that point you are fans of specific songs or albums, not the artist. But again, I've never experience anything similar, and so I really can't identify.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Never said anyone was a bad person, just said it was a shame.

 

Out of curiosity, when is "shame" good? Or even indifferent?

 

Clinging onto the hope that a band will continue to make similar records throughout their entire career is kind of a damaging way to be a fan, isn't it? Damaging in the sense that the band will always have that demographic of people wishing for that, and for the individual because they will be let down so much.

 

Who's clinging? People who don't like it listen to other things; I know of no one on this board at least who puts SBS on while they grasp at the vinyl sleeve crying, "Why, why?????"

 

Putting it at the bottom of the list because you don't like it is one thing, putting it at the bottom of the list because it's different from their past albums is another.

 

I have heard not a one criticism that says, "It's different so I don't like it." People have listed any number of things - myself included - in this thread: smooth-jazz intonations, boring, bland lyrics, no hooks - you've read the thread, you know. It's different, yes, and that's one of the reasons why I don't like it, but it's different to me in that it's by and large a snoozefest.

[bleedorange]

Who's clinging? People who don't like it listen to other things; I know of no one on this board at least who puts SBS on while they grasp at the vinyl sleeve crying, "Why, why?????"

 

This made me laugh out loud.

[bleedorange]

And just to address again the whole "you're not a true fan if you hate a whole album by an artist" statement I made, I honestly have never had any similar experience with that. I don't really see how you could, either. At that point you are fans of specific songs or albums, not the artist. But again, I've never experience anything similar, and so I really can't identify.

 

I can't think of a single artist other than The Beatles where I have liked every single thing they have done. As smells like flowers and Nap posted earlier, being a fan means having intense feelings towards an artist that goes both ways.

 

Here's what I don't understand about your argument: I liked everything Wilco had done through A Ghost is Born. Sky Blue Sky comes out and doesn't stand the test of time for me. It becomes my least favorite album of Wilco's and I hardly listen to it anymore. So who do I turn my "Wilco fan membership card" in to?

[LaughingDog]

 

Out of curiosity, when is "shame" good? Or even indifferent?

I meant it in a way less of a negative connotation than the formal meaning of "shame" - "that's a shame" reads "that's too bad". It's not good per se, but it isn't a judgement on that particular person's character. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I just feel it's too bad that not all hardcore Wilco fans can enjoy all of their albums. :'(

 

Who's clinging? People who don't like it listen to other things; I know of no one on this board at least who puts SBS on while they grasp at the vinyl sleeve crying, "Why, why?????"

 

I have to admit, I laughed too. I think you misunderstood me, though. I was addressing your point about betrayal and disappointment. Sure, rooting yourself in albums that a particular artist has put out is absolutely the point of music. But when a new artist puts out an album, is it fair to use those same rooted sentiments so attributed to their past to judge them still? Some argue it is perfectly fair, I argue that it isn't. I think this debate is present elsewhere on this forum as well, can't remember which thread. Now hear me out, because I understand that this is completely different from musical taste. If you don't like it, you don't like it. If you feel as though they went in the wrong direction, then fine. That is okay. But your post I was responding to was the one about identification with an artist. Artists change. They change because they are people.

 

I have heard not a one criticism that says, "It's different so I don't like it." People have listed any number of things - myself included - in this thread: smooth-jazz intonations, boring, bland lyrics, no hooks - you've read the thread, you know. It's different, yes, and that's one of the reasons why I don't like it, but it's different to me in that it's by and large a snoozefest.

And that is fair. And that is that. I've felt that many criticisms of SBS have implied that it is different from their past albums, and therefore it isn't good. Some imply it more strongly than others. If those implications are due to poor interpretation on my part, then my argument against that particular criticism is irrelevant.

 

 

I can't think of a single artist other than The Beatles where I have liked every single thing they have done. As smells like flowers and Nap posted earlier, being a fan means having intense feelings towards an artist that goes both ways.

 

Here's what I don't understand about your argument: I liked everything Wilco had done through A Ghost is Born. Sky Blue Sky comes out and doesn't stand the test of time for me. It becomes my least favorite album of Wilco's and I hardly listen to it anymore. So who do I turn my "Wilco fan membership card" in to?

 

Before that, let me ask you this: do you hate Sky Blue Sky? Is it intolerable? Do you plug your ears when you listen to it? No? Then I don't think you hate it, at least not according to my definition.

 

The whole reason I brought my argument up is because I had (mistakenly) thought that there were Wilco fans on this thread saying they hated Sky Blue Sky.

If you don't hate it, then I guess my argument has nothing to do with you, right? Again, it being at the bottom of your list and you "hardly listening to it" (hardly implies you still do sometimes, which reaffirms that you don't hate it) is different from you hating it. Hate is intolerance with little room for you to ever change your position in the slightest. I don't think you fit that. Congrats!! You can keep your Wilco fan membership yahoooooo!!!!!!! :w00t

[choo-choo-charlie]

 

edit: if you're referring to bleedorange's "I have hatred" remark, I'm 98% sure that was in response to the page of Volkswagen/SBS puns.

 

 

The car wouldn't start because there's no current in the water wire.

[bleedorange]

Can I hate a song of an artist and still be a fan? Because I hate Leave Me (Like You Found Me) and What Light.