Hot Stove League 2012-2013!!!

[MrRain422]

Fuck Pete Rose. Screw the players who took PEDs and didn't get in, too. They took the gamble, and lost.

 

What about a guy like Jeff Bagwell, for whom there is no evidence of steroid use at all, not even any real allegations, but still seems to be blocked from the HoF because some writers decided that he is suspicious simply for because of the era in which he played?

 

The fact is, none of us have any idea who did or who didn't use steroids, or what effect, if any, PED use had on their game. In light of that, players who were the best players of their era should be inducted into the Hall.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

What about a guy like Jeff Bagwell, for whom there is no evidence of steroid use at all, not even any real allegations, but still seems to be blocked from the HoF because some writers decided that he is suspicious simply for because of the era in which he played?

 

The fact is, none of us have any idea who did or who didn't use steroids, or what effect, if any, PED use had on their game. In light of that, players who were the best players of their era should be inducted into the Hall.

 

To think that alcoholic, coke snorting sportswriters would be so offended at players using peds is really amusing.

[The High Heat]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-11-27/carlos-ruiz-suspended-suspension-25-games-amphetamines-adderall-phillies

 

So my favorite player got busted for using adderall twice and is suspended 25 games. Don't know how exactly to feel about this, but I know I still love Chooch.

[Lammycat]

What about a guy like Jeff Bagwell, for whom there is no evidence of steroid use at all, not even any real allegations, but still seems to be blocked from the HoF because some writers decided that he is suspicious simply for because of the era in which he played?

 

The fact is, none of us have any idea who did or who didn't use steroids, or what effect, if any, PED use had on their game. In light of that, players who were the best players of their era should be inducted into the Hall.

Bagwell will likely get in. He gained a good amount of votes the second time around and third time likely a charm.

 

On the contrary, I think that plenty of us know potential HOFers that were using, as many have been caught and/or admitted to it. Regardless of the extent of the actual effect of PEDs, they were banned/illegal to use. If the HOF committee want to use that as a quasi-barometer it's their prerogative, I suppose.

[Oil Can Boyd]

 

What about a guy like Jeff Bagwell, for whom there is no evidence of steroid use at all, not even any real allegations, but still seems to be blocked from the HoF because some writers decided that he is suspicious simply for because of the era in which he played?

 

The fact is, none of us have any idea who did or who didn't use steroids, or what effect, if any, PED use had on their game. In light of that, players who were the best players of their era should be inducted into the Hall.

 

Interesting piece from a Boston Globe writer - who is also a HOF voter - about PEDs.  He is basically agreeing with you and saying that he doesn't care any more whether players took PEDs.  It is part of baseball's history and he is going to judge players on their numbers. 

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2012/11/erasing_a_line.html

[MrRain422]

It's not even just a matter of not caring, it's also recognizing that we'll never really know who used and who didn't.  Sure, some of these guys got caught or admitted to it, but what about all the guys who didn't?  The players who admit to it end up getting penalized more than those who don't cop to it and don't get caught.  And for any individual writer to decide that he knows who did or didn't use is arrogant and stupid.

 

Every HoF candidate should be judged based on the context in which they played.  For the guys who played in the '90s and early '00s, that means a high offense environment, fueled yes (maybe) by steroids, but also by several other factors.  All we can do is judge the players of that era against each other and put the best ones in.  History will still record who was a known PED user (it's already the primary narrative about that part of baseball history) and I'm sure Barry Bonds, for one, will never be remembered as one of baseball's good guys.  But he was also the best player of his era (and among the best of any era). A Hall of Fame that includes Jim Rice but not Barry Bonds ceases to really mean anything at all.  A Hall of Fame that may end up inducting Jack Morris but not Roger Clemens doesn't really come close to honoring the best players in the game.

 

And that's all aside from the fact that, though steroids and HGH were perhaps new to the game in the so called steroids era, they are not the first performance enhancing drugs.  Amphetamines have been a part of the game for a long, long time, and there are already plenty of guys in the Hall who used speed to get through the long season (including inner circle guys like Willie Mays, if I'm not mistaken).  It's pretty dumb when writers decide who used and who didn't, but it gets beyond stupid once they start deciding which PEDs matter and which ones don't.

[The High Heat]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121124&content_id=40406376&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

The upcoming HOF ballot features first-timers Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Biggio, Piazza, Schilling, and 14th year candidate Jack Morris, who gets closer to getting voted in every year. I'm guessing only Biggio and Morris get in next year, and Piazza will have the most votes of those not getting in. It'll probably take 2 or 3 tries before Piazza gets the nod. The rest should get enough to stay on the ballot, but it will be interesting to see if Sosa gets more votes than Schilling.

[The High Heat]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121128&content_id=40445762&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

First significant FA (no disrespect to the 2 year deal Torii Hunter signed with Detroit) to switch teams: B.J. Upton, Atlanta Braves, 5 years/$75MM. I wonder they'll make a play for his brother now?

[Lammycat]

It's not even just a matter of not caring, it's also recognizing that we'll never really know who used and who didn't.  Sure, some of these guys got caught or admitted to it, but what about all the guys who didn't?  The players who admit to it end up getting penalized more than those who don't cop to it and don't get caught.  And for any individual writer to decide that he knows who did or didn't use is arrogant and stupid.

 

Every HoF candidate should be judged based on the context in which they played.  For the guys who played in the '90s and early '00s, that means a high offense environment, fueled yes (maybe) by steroids, but also by several other factors.  All we can do is judge the players of that era against each other and put the best ones in.  History will still record who was a known PED user (it's already the primary narrative about that part of baseball history) and I'm sure Barry Bonds, for one, will never be remembered as one of baseball's good guys.  But he was also the best player of his era (and among the best of any era). A Hall of Fame that includes Jim Rice but not Barry Bonds ceases to really mean anything at all.  A Hall of Fame that may end up inducting Jack Morris but not Roger Clemens doesn't really come close to honoring the best players in the game.

 

And that's all aside from the fact that, though steroids and HGH were perhaps new to the game in the so called steroids era, they are not the first performance enhancing drugs.  Amphetamines have been a part of the game for a long, long time, and there are already plenty of guys in the Hall who used speed to get through the long season (including inner circle guys like Willie Mays, if I'm not mistaken).  It's pretty dumb when writers decide who used and who didn't, but it gets beyond stupid once they start deciding which PEDs matter and which ones don't.

The guys who did do it and didn't get caught don't matter, though, if they aren't potential HOF'ers. Of course there's more scrutiny on a Bonds or a Clemens or a whomever HOF candidate. What about all the guys who played without using that may have boosted their numbers had they juiced? The era in which the juicers played contained plenty of players that actually played fairly/by the rules. If the HOF wants to omit guys because they cheated by using banned substances so be it.

[MrRain422]

I wasn't referring to the lesser players who won't get in. I meant the guys who are already in or will someday get in who managed to get that far without getting caught or arousing major suspicion. It is impossible to know with any certainty that anyone didn't use PEDs. Why should anyone be honest and come clean about their PED use if doing so will automatically disqualify them for the HoF while less honest guys get in.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

 

Every HoF candidate should be judged based on the context in which they played.  

i think it comes down to this, personally. accept that the steroid era was a thing, elect some of the best players from it (acknowledge the era on their plaque if you must), move on. i think guys like bonds, clemens, etc will be made to wait a few years, but they'll get in.

[The High Heat]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121130&content_id=40470266&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

David Wright will be with the Mets through 2020, and R.A. Dickey is close to signing a 2 or 3 year extension.

 

Also:

Mo Rivera is coming back to the Yanks on another one year deal.

The Nats acquired CF Dernard Span from the Twins for one minor league pitcher - a steal for D.C.!

Russell Martin is heading to Pittsburgh with a two year contract.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

i'm loving that span deal for the nats. i was worried they were gonna throw way too much money at bourne or upton, and they'd lock him up for too many years and block some of their top prospects from getting a shot down the line. span seems to be just a tad below bourn on most of the important leadoff stats, and a hell of a lot cheaper, and only signed for two more years. it prevents a logjam in the outfield in a few years and frees up money to pursue a starting pitcher. the guy they gave up is a well regarded young arm, but still probably 2/3 years away from the majors. it could end up being one of those rare trades that does huge things for both teams.

 

i think upton signing with the braves this week is gonna set a lot of other stuff in motion, including hamilton, bourne, greinke, laroche, etc.

[The High Heat]

i'm loving that span deal for the nats. i was worried they were gonna throw way too much money at bourne or upton, and they'd lock him up for too many years and block some of their top prospects from getting a shot down the line. span seems to be just a tad below bourn on most of the important leadoff stats, and a hell of a lot cheaper, and only signed for two more years. it prevents a logjam in the outfield in a few years and frees up money to pursue a starting pitcher. the guy they gave up is a well regarded young arm, but still probably 2/3 years away from the majors. it could end up being one of those rare trades that does huge things for both teams.

 

i think upton signing with the braves this week is gonna set a lot of other stuff in motion, including hamilton, bourne, greinke, laroche, etc.

With Span only making $4MM and top of the order hitters being in demand the Twinkies should have gotten another good prospect (or at least Lannan) thrown in the deal. If the Phils don't sign Bourne - and I hope they don't! - he's going to have a hard time getting the typical Boras-client contract he's seeking. For a lead off/base stealer, he's a whiff machine too.

[MrRain422]

Here's a writer who won't vote for Craig Biggio, because he played with Roger Clemens.  The self-righteous douchebag writers are really getting out of hand.

 

 

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/20121201/SPORTS03/121209961/#full_story

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Here's a writer who won't vote for Craig Biggio, because he played with Roger Clemens.  The self-righteous douchebag writers are really getting out of hand.

 

 

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/20121201/SPORTS03/121209961/#full_story

 

Then I'm guessing he won't be voting for Derek Jeter either...after all, Jeter played with Pettie, Clemens AND A-Rod.

[The High Heat]

Then I'm guessing he won't be voting for Derek Jeter either...after all, Jeter played with Pettie, Clemens AND A-Rod.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121203&content_id=40498100&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

Speaking of A-Rod...how much will he play in 2013?

[Oil Can Boyd]

Red Sox sign Mike Napoli to 3 year/$39 million contract:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-mike-napoli-reach-three-year-deal-120312

[Lammycat]

Red Sox sign Mike Napoli to 3 year/$39 million contract:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-mike-napoli-reach-three-year-deal-120312

Saw this last night. I like it. Guy can catch, play first, and DH. Nice options in the field and nice bat for the middle of the line up.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Red Sox sign Mike Napoli to 3 year/$39 million contract:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/boston-red-sox-mike-napoli-reach-three-year-deal-120312

 

Good deal if he is the Napoli of the last two months of 2011. If he's the Napoli of the rest of his career, not so much.

He proved to be rather injury prone in his time in Texas. And if you're counting on him being primarily a catcher, then it won't be pretty.

 

That being said and done, he's a good guy and when he gets really hot, he can carry a team. But he can also look lost at the plate.

He is a sabrematrician's kind of player, His OPS+ numbers are outstanding, but he is REALLY streaky.

[Lammycat]

Red Sox have an everyday catcher. 

 

 

Josh Hamilton might be joining Napoli, too, likely if he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (3 yrs?) than he's looking for.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Red Sox have an everyday catcher. 

 

 

Josh Hamilton might be joining Napoli, too, likely if he'd be willing to take a shorter deal (3 yrs?) than he's looking for.

 

 

Lord...the Boston press would eat Josh alive. He's a goofier version of Manny Ramirez without the violent streak and much more prone to massive slumps.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Hamilton in Boston would be a personal disaster for Josh.

 

The first time he started talking about God's will and "I am Second", the cynical Boston press would ridicule him mercilessly.

 

Ray Davis (The Ranger's MONEY MAN) LOVES Josh and may over rule Daniels and make him sign Josh for four years $100 million+.

[Lammycat]

I think if he were to play at the level expected of him on a relatively consistent basis he'd be fine. Schilling was a God-boy too....

[The High Heat]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121204&content_id=40522480&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

No Hamilton for the Red Sox. It'll be Gomes in left, Ellsbury in center, and now Shane Victorino on right. Boston is going for high-energy, self-leaders this offseason. Napoli and David Ross fit that bill as well.