How Wilco’s Jeff Tweedy Learned To Grow Up And Start Firing His Friends

[uncool2pillow]

I was unaware that it's a virtue or a sign of "growing up" to fire your friends especially when their livelihoods depend upon it.  But I guess that's the warped corporate mentality of the age we live in.  Such a pity.

Great first post!

[Bob_Roberts]

I did read the article and the title is not provocative, it's actually accurate.  This is what Tweedy says about firing Bennett:

 

“If you wanted to pinpoint a moment where I was doing something boss like and mature, that would have been it,” he says, then looks away. Though Tweedy does not mention it, Bennett died in 2009. “‘Boss like’ sounds terrible, but you know what I mean.”

 

IMHO that act is definitely "Boss like" but it's not mature, nor is it compassionate, nor is it ethical.  It's just a guy in a position of power who finds an underling a nuisance and gets rid of him.  At least that's how I see it.  How is that growing up?

[uncool2pillow]

He no longer liked working with the guy, Wilco is, was, and will be Jeff Tweedy's band. Bennett made some huge contributions to the band, but Tweedy wanted to move on. How is it "corporate"? If anything, a Bennettless Wilco was harder to market.

[Magnetized]

 

I did read the article and the title is not provocative, it's actually accurate.  This is what Tweedy says about firing Bennett:

 

“If you wanted to pinpoint a moment where I was doing something boss like and mature, that would have been it,” he says, then looks away. Though Tweedy does not mention it, Bennett died in 2009. “‘Boss like’ sounds terrible, but you know what I mean.”[/size]

 

IMHO that act is definitely "Boss like" but it's not mature, nor is it compassionate, nor is it ethical.  It's just a guy in a position of power who finds an underling a nuisance and gets rid of him.  At least that's how I see it.  How is that growing up?

How is it immature, callous or unethical to have a vision for your band (or team, or work group--you name the context) and take actions to furthur that vision? Yeah, it's always sad to see someone lose a job, but sometimes you just don't fit in with the new direction that the group is heading in. Anyone who thinks Wilco is not Jeff Tweedy's creative vehicle is mistaken, in my opinion.

 

Edit: Uncool2pillow, we "crossed in the mail"!

[Bob_Roberts]

I guess I just expect something more from people than for them to find their point of maturity in the act of firing another human being.

[uncool2pillow]

Are you hiring?

[Bob_Roberts]

We believed we
Would see with our own eyes the new
World where man was no longer
Wolf to man, but men and women
Were all brothers and lovers
Together. We will not see it.
We will not see it, none of us.
It is farther off than we thought.
. . . It does not matter.
We were comrades together.
Life was good for us. It is
Good to be brave - nothing is
Better. Food tastes better. Wine
Is more brilliant. Girls are more
Beautiful. The sky is bluer . . . .
If the good days never come,
We will not know. We will not care.
Our lives were the best. We were the
Happiest men alive in our day.

[The High Heat]

I guess I just expect something more from people than for them to find their point of maturity in the act of firing another human being.

Tweedy's previous statement was that he failed to personally talk to Ken Coomer (almost called him Ron Coomer -haha!) when he wanted him to leave the band. Firing Bennett personally was a step needed to take in his own maturity, rather than have the manager handle everything for him. Hell, Jeff even admits that his wife use to have to arrange everything at home, including the small things like calling for pizza delivery. There were lots of things Tweedy needed to do on his own. Firing Bennett was his first step in a lot of ways, including not letting his band fall completely apart. There's more than making music in being part of a band. Jay Bennett kind of separated himself from the band in more ways than one. He got canned for it. There's nothing unethical about it.

[uncool2pillow]

We believed we[/size]Would see with our own eyes the new[/size]World where man was no longer[/size]Wolf to man, but men and women[/size]Were all brothers and lovers[/size]Together. We will not see it.[/size]We will not see it, none of us.[/size]It is farther off than we thought.[/size]. . . It does not matter.[/size]We were comrades together.[/size]Life was good for us. It is[/size]Good to be brave - nothing is[/size]Better. Food tastes better. Wine[/size]Is more brilliant. Girls are more[/size]Beautiful. The sky is bluer . . . .[/size]If the good days never come,[/size]We will not know. We will not care.[/size]Our lives were the best. We

were the[/size]Happiest men alive in our day.[/size]

OK. Are you hiring?

[smells like flowers]

 Hell, Jeff even admits that his wife use to have to arrange everything at home, including the small things like calling for pizza delivery. There were lots of things Tweedy needed to do on his own.

 

For someone reluctant to even call in a pizza order, being able to confront a bandmate/friend to ask him to leave the band sure seems like a huge step towards maturity.

[Cold as Gasoline]

As someone who is both a boss and an underling, I've thought about this.  While I've never had a conversation like "a circle needs a center", I have had conversations like "perhaps this is not the job you have the right skill set for, and you would probably be more successful in another profession."  It's not a conversation I would wish on anyone with a soul.  But it is sometimes necessary in order to get actual work done, whether that work is creating the best music possible or achieving some business objective that you are obligated to deliver, and accept pay for.  

 

There is nothing wrong with aligning the right people to achieve a vision of success.  I think about the lady who told me "I need you to repeat information 4-5 times before I will learn it" and I had to tell her that that model just doesn't work because I don't have the time to repeat the same information many times.  She eventually quit of her own volition, but if she had not left, the result would have been that she was being paid to do work that she wasn't qualified for, for which others would have to pick up the slack, and she would never have been successful.  I can't see how anyone benefits.  

 

With Jay Bennett, the band was in turmoil and very likely would have broken up if something in the toxic dynamic did not change (see the current Civil Wars weirdness).  I can't see how it was a bad thing to try to change that negative dynamic.  What do you think would have been the result if Jeff had not had that conversation?  That everyone would have lived in harmony and created great music thereafter?  Seems unlikely.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

[Bob_Roberts]

But I thought Wilco is the band carrying Woody Guthrie's torch?  Maybe not so much

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbgKEjNBHqM

[Cold as Gasoline]

Not sure Wilco ever claimed that.

[Bob_Roberts]

I'm sure all these firings were very troubling for Tweedy.  Reminds me of a song

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA1gRc7sctI

[The Inside of Outside]

As someone who is both a boss and an underling, I've thought about this.  While I've never had a conversation like "a circle needs a center", I have had conversations like "perhaps this is not the job you have the right skill set for, and you would probably be more successful in another profession."  It's not a conversation I would wish on anyone with a soul.  But it is sometimes necessary in order to get actual work done, whether that work is creating the best music possible or achieving some business objective that you are obligated to deliver, and accept pay for.  

 

There is nothing wrong with aligning the right people to achieve a vision of success.  I think about the lady who told me "I need you to repeat information 4-5 times before I will learn it" and I had to tell her that that model just doesn't work because I don't have the time to repeat the same information many times.  She eventually quit of her own volition, but if she had not left, the result would have been that she was being paid to do work that she wasn't qualified for, for which others would have to pick up the slack, and she would never have been successful.  I can't see how anyone benefits.  

 

With Jay Bennett, the band was in turmoil and very likely would have broken up if something in the toxic dynamic did not change (see the current Civil Wars weirdness).  I can't see how it was a bad thing to try to change that negative dynamic.  What do you think would have been the result if Jeff had not had that conversation?  That everyone would have lived in harmony and created great music thereafter?  Seems unlikely.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Having a difficult conversation with someone - that is absolutely mature. And one that many adults struggle to do not just well, but at all.

[Cold as Gasoline]

Having a difficult conversation with someone - that is absolutely mature. And one that many adults struggle to do not just well, but at all.

 

Like the man said, you gotta be cruel to be kind

[Bob_Roberts]

Ah what the hell!  I was just kidding -- I do think it's a sign of maturity to fire your friends if you're the boss.  Who gives a crap anyway.  This message board was just getting so dull for me as a "lurker" that I thought I'd bring back the whole bennett/coomer thing -- but it just doesn't have the same juice anymore.  The arguments have all been argued (although I do think that replacing Coomer with Kotche is like the Stones replacing Charlie Watts with Neal Peart, and replacing Bennett with Cline is like The Flying Burrito Bros replacing Sneaky Pete with Pat Metheny - but I digress...)  

 

As I was saying the arguments have all run their course and are just stale and old now (like me come to think of it).  Tweedy needs to inject some controversy into the proceedings -- you know, release a sex tape or maybe fire Pat Sansone simply to create an existential crisis for John Stirratt.  Or he could bludgeon a prostitute with his guitar while on a sexual tourism trip to Bangkok and then flee the country for his compound in Uruguay where he can proceed to release cryptic songs produced on his 4 track onto youtube while high on bath salts.  Maybe he could join the Westboro Baptist Church for awhile or he could start stalking Taylor Swift.  I think any and/or all of those things would revitalize this message board and allow me to lurk in peace once again.

[The Inside of Outside]

^^^^^

That is a great post! Who needs Jeff to inject some controversy? We just need Bob Roberts!

[Cold as Gasoline]

OK, that made me laugh out loud, so mission accomplished!

[Atticus]

(Kotche  Neal Peart,) 

 

I enjoyed your whole post except for this

(and I'm not really sure why)

[bjorn_skurj]

Pat Metheny? OW.

[eisler]

I think his moment of doing"something boss like and mature" really crippled Wilco. I think Jeff is super talented don't get me wrong , but when Jay left I think he took a great big chunk of the talent and creativity with him.

[Bob_Roberts]

I think his moment of doing"something boss like and mature" really crippled Wilco. I think Jeff is super talented don't get me wrong , but when Jay left I think he took a great big chunk of the talent and creativity with him.

I tend to agree with this and would include Coomer in on that.  After the firings of Coomer and especially Bennett it became increasingly hard to listen to Wilco.  With the anchor of Coomer gone Wilco was free to fly into the hard rock stratosphere but they lost the down to earth sensitivity to rock n' roll and country style that Coomer had.  Obviously Bennett was the master of the counter melody, the substitution chord change, and power pop twang heaven.  Both of them put a lot of their soul into Wilco and it was hard to stomach watching them get fired just as the band was on the precipice of greater success - that is, just as their hard work and sacrifice was to be rewarded with a little better pay and recognition.  After that, it was basically "The Jeff Tweedy Band" for all intensive purposes but it really wasn't up to that point: that's why Tweedy axed them.

 

But again this is old stuff -- where's the Tweedy sex tape is what I want to know! 

[Bob_Roberts]

^^^^^

That is a great post! Who needs Jeff to inject some controversy? We just need Bob Roberts!

Thanks -- and if that's a picture of you, you've got a great ass!

[smells like flowers]

But again this is old stuff -- where's the Tweedy sex tape is what I want to know! 

 

As much as I dig Jeff, I have to admit I never want to see him having sex on tape....