lost highway Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Do you know what causes gangs? Do you think police and prisons will make gangs go away? You're a smart person, I won't lecture you on the effect of socio-economic class. Take the ecological model of human development: Fill in each of the blanks for someone who's born and raised in the ghetto. That's where gang members come from. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Do you think police and prisons will make gangs go away?No, but they could do a good job getting them and their guns off the streets, and that's fine with me. Again, if we want to dramatically lower our murder rate, slapping new restrictions on magazine capacity, ammunition types, so-called "assault rifles" etc. is not the way to go about it. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Let's just start rounding up all the guns for all I care. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 No, but they could do a good job getting them and their guns off the streets, and that's fine with me. Again, if we want to dramatically lower our murder rate, slapping new restrictions on magazine capacity, ammunition types, so-called "assault rifles" etc. is not the way to go about it. With someone new to replace them, and as you like to point out, another gun. You have to combat poverty, it's the biggest cause of violence in our country. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Ok, build enough prisons to hold the 1 million gang members in the United States. There are 150,000 in Chicago alone. That'll be a good start. Your solution, locking up gang members is such reactionary knee-jerk statement. Sure on the surface it sound like a great idea. Of course gang members can't commit murders if they are in jail. But it doesn't take in account the immense cost of doing this. Cost per inmate per day (in Cook Co) is $143.00. Multiple that by your 150K number that is nearly $21.5 million dollars a day. Which is $7.8 billion a year. Not to mention the costs of the police in catching and trying these criminals. Also studies have proven that there is no positive impact of incarceration to crime rates. Though the crime rate is dropping there are many many factors and locking people up has a negligible effect. Nor is prison an effective deterrent to crime. I agree criminals are a problem and if someone commits a crime they should be punished. But your solution will do nothing to actually solve the problem and waste an incredible amount of money doing so. If the goal is to reduce the murder rate caused by gangs it would be more prudent by attacking the root cause of gangs (drugs, poverty, family structure, etc.) rather than go about and throw every gang member in jail. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/children-killed Here's a chart detailing the number of children killed by guns. Over 30 in September alone. If only these children had their own guns to defend themselves with. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 No, but they could do a good job getting them and their guns off the streets, and that's fine with me. Did a bit more research on this and found this. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html So the NRA talking point of the gang problem causing our gun problem is really not so true. So not only is the "throw every gang member in jail" plan fiscally irresponsible it is actually based upon some false assumptions. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I highly recommend Dan Savage's opening rant on his podcast this week regarding guns. Maybe even those with gun fetishes here will understand what he is talking about. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I highly recommend Dan Savage's opening rant on his podcast this week regarding guns. Maybe even those with gun fetishes here will understand what he is talking about. LouieB Do not count on it. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm not, but it is very well reasoned and reasonable. His basic point is that if guns were less easier to get and there were more responsibility put on gun owners, then gun owners would actually have more status not less. (Also that if 2nd amendment freaks stood up for the rest of the constitution including the 1st amendment in the same way they stand up for the 2nd they would also get more respect.) LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Didn't even realize that Savage had a podcast --- that gun segment was a good one - it seemed perfectly reasonable. Just started to watch that HBO's Newsroom show - I am always about 3-4 years behind everything - anyway the last episode I watched discussed the period when the NRA and others trumped up the notion that President Obama was going to take all the guns away once he was elected and took the Oath of Office - right out the gate this debate was off-kilter, badly. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/ See. This is what we need more of in this country. Vigilante justice. Firefights in parking lots. A much safer country for all! Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Did a bit more research on this and found this. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html So the NRA talking point of the gang problem causing our gun problem is really not so true.That article admits that (in a study of 5 cities) 30% of the homicides were gang-related, so it's not exactly a trifling number. The study even leads off with this sentence: "Gang homicides account for a substantial proportion of homicides among youths in some U.S. cities." Maybe even those with gun fetishes here will understand what he is talking about.I've yet to see anyone exhibit even the slightest sign of a gun fetish on this forum. the last episode I watched discussed the period when the NRA and others trumped up the notion that President Obama was going to take all the guns away once he was elected and took the Oath of OfficeHe was on record as being in favor of banning all handguns, all semiautomatic firearms, all so-called "assault weapons" and was in favor of a number of measures that would greatly inhibit gun ownership, so although he wasn't in favor (at least not publicly) of a total gun ban, it was clear that he would like to take away the guns that Americans preferred to own Add in his recent support for UK/Australian-style legislation (bans, confiscation, registration) and it's clear that the concerns were warranted. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 That article admits that (in a study of 5 cities) 30% of the homicides were gang-related, so it's not exactly a trifling number. The study even leads off with this sentence: "Gang homicides account for a substantial proportion of homicides among youths in some U.S. cities." No it is not a trifling number and I never said we shouldn't go after criminals with guns. But 70% of all homicides were not gang-related. Which is a much larger number, and "throwing gang members in jail" plan would ignore over 2/3rd of all of the murders. Plus as I stated before, that plan would be ineffective and costly. Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/10/06/cpl-holder-opens-fire-shoplifter-home-depot/73468588/ See. This is what we need more of in this country. Vigilante justice. Firefights in parking lots. A much safer country for all!Indeed. We need more untrained civilians shooting first and asking questions later. Too bad she wasn't in Oregon. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Someone here is in denial. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Someone here is in denial.Someone here doesn't understand the meaning of 'fetish.' Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 This guy gets it. I would hope that he speaks for the vast majority of gun owners, though recent conversations make me wonder if that's true. Please watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=YN6rjamk0Q0 Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 This guy gets it. I would hope that he speaks for the vast majority of gun owners, though recent conversations make me wonder if that's true. Please watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=YN6rjamk0Q0 This isn't going to go well. Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 This guy gets it. I would hope that he speaks for the vast majority of gun owners, though recent conversations make me wonder if that's true. Please watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=YN6rjamk0Q0Most of his points are reasonable and similar to what I've been saying all along. Unfortunately, he falls back on the "can't we at least try to do something" mentality that our lawmakers display when trying to pass asinine gun control laws after every high-profile shooting. He doesn't explain how criminals are going to suddenly take tests, get registered and take background checks when they already ignore those existing laws ... the simple fact is that they won't. He also seems to think that criminals are getting their guns from strangers via the so-called gun show loophole, when that has been proven to be untrue. But I did like that he mentioned that people who use marijuana and other recreational drugs are not allowed to purchase firearms. Maybe we should include a urinalysis in the process. That should get people riled up. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Just another day in America. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/09/one-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-northern-arizona-university/?tid=sm_tw Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Just another day in America. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/09/one-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-northern-arizona-university/?tid=sm_tw Man don't be too quick and rush to a knee-jerk reaction to this tragedy. We should throw out and argue about some plans and solutions, but ultimately do nothing. But what is ultimately sad in this entire thing, is that since the Oregon shooting last week, there have been several other shootings and gun deaths, which has not been reported in the media. Some of them gang related some of them not. I guess now the only way gun violence gets on the news is that it happens at a school. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Man don't be too quick and rush to a knee-jerk reaction to this tragedy. We should throw out and argue about some plans and solutions, but ultimately do nothing. But what is ultimately sad in this entire thing, is that since the Oregon shooting last week, there have been several other shootings and gun deaths, which has not been reported in the media. Some of them gang related some of them not. I guess now the only way gun violence gets on the news is that it happens at a school. It's absolutely ridiculous. And more news today...Texas Southern is on lockdown today after a shooting. Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I just don't understand how all these members of our well-regulated militias are going berserk. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 This Dems debate is interesting. Webb reminds me a little of vintage McCain: a chest beating moderate. Chaffee is done. Sanders and Clinton both drawing applause and getting jabs in, in good turn. Link to post Share on other sites
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