Politics 2016 (election edition)

[Tweedling]

I can't help but draw a comparison between the right and their disdain and vitriol for Obama, while he was running for president, and the lefts current contempt and rhetoric for Trump.

[KevinG]

I can't help but draw a comparison between the right and their disdain and vitriol for Obama, while he was running for president, and the lefts current contempt and rhetoric for Trump.

 

I may be biased here, but the Right's disdain and vitriol for Obama was mostly unfounded and based upon lies, hearsay, and frankly tinged with racism.  The first example that comes to mind is the whole Birther nonsense and lest we forget, something that the current GOP candidate was is really big on.  And don't forget the Jeremiah Wright ridiculousness.  Or the calls that Obama is a Muslim, or socialist.  These attacks, just stupid.  

 

Whereas, the contempt for Trump is based upon things he actually has done or said.  Not to say that all of the Right's hatred is unfounded, ideological people are going to disagree and that brings out the nastiness.  But as for myself, my contempt for Trump is not generally based upon political ideology (mostly because his policy statements are an incoherent mess of pandering and I don't even think Trump knows what he stands for), but rather, the fact that he has said racist, misogynistic, xenophobic things.  He repeatedly spreads and repeats dangerous misinformation on health and scientific matters.  He bullies people who disagree with him, and puts them down rather than defend his position.      

 

So I guess the level is probably close, but the reasoning behind the vitriol / contempt is extremely different.   

[lost highway]

I can't help but draw a comparison between the right and their disdain and vitriol for Obama, while he was running for president, and the lefts current contempt and rhetoric for Trump.

Have you heard what he said? Do you remember what Obama was saying?

[KevinG]

Clinton's speech yesterday pretty much sums up why Trump is unfit to be president.

 

http://time.com/4355797/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-foreign-policy-speech-transcript/

 

A speech like this should have given in September by a GOP candidate.  It is interesting how most of the speech did not actually hing on policy, but it hinged on the dangerous and stupid things Donald Trump has said.  But at the same point,   

 

Of course Trump's response was classic, "Hillary has to go to jail."  Or the even better, tweet about her teleprompter skills.  Not a rebuttal of why she is was wrong about it him, why his foreign policy does make sense, why his ideas are not dangerous.  Nope, just a tired Right wing talking points, with no substance.  

 

Just think we have 5 months of this nightmare.  

[John Smith]

Obama is going to be living 1,096feet away from a mosque, further proof that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on destroying the US. Yep stuff like that is pretty comparable to people criticizing trumps actual words. By the way, when did Obama switch from black liberation Christianity to Islam?

[Tweedling]

Are these "protestors" that were sucker punching and throwing things at Trump supporters going to vote in November? Despite the violence that happened inside the Trump rallies earlier in the campaigns, the footage from yesterday shows extreme escalation. I can't help but think the vulgar chants, signs and sucker punching only encourages more support for Trump.

I hope this is not what we have to look forward to inside and outside the DNC in Philadelphia this July.

[Tweedling]

Obama is going to be living 1,096feet away from a mosque, further proof that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on destroying the US. Yep stuff like that is pretty comparable to people criticizing trumps actual words. By the way, when did Obama switch from black liberation Christianity to Islam?

The right believes what they believe and the left believe what they believe. Aside from that, I was pointing out the similar ways that both sides have reacted to candidates in the past and in the present.

[Sir Stewart]

Yes, we do seem to react similarly when we are feverishly against something, no matter the basis of our arguments.

[KevinG]

The right believes what they believe and the left believe what they believe. Aside from that, I was pointing out the similar ways that both sides have reacted to candidates in the past and in the present.

 

Yes on the surface, they are reacting in similar ways (ie I hate this person), but beyond that the two are very different and really comparing the reactions is disingenuous.  The Right's vitriol towards Obama, was generally irrational, based upon lies and steeped in racism (not all but some of it).  Whereas, the contempt towards Trump is based on his own words.  I mentioned Clinton's speech yesterday.  Her "attacks" on Trump used his own words and actions.  Whereas the Muslim, birther nonsense, etc did not use Obama's words.      

 

You certainly can compare.  Just like you can compare an apple to an orange, yes, they are both fruit, but beyond that they are entirely different.  Without that acknowledgement you are trying draw conclusions that just are not there.  

[Hixter]

And don't forget the Jeremiah Wright ridiculousness.

The fact that the presidential candidate belonged to a church whose pastor peppered his sermons with anti-white messages and "God damn America" was not ridiculous. It was such a political time bomb that Obama eventually denounced the sermons and left the church.

 

I can't help but think the vulgar chants, signs and sucker punching only encourages more support for Trump.

I'm sure they will.

 

Whereas, the contempt towards Trump is based on his own words. 

Words that have been twisted by the media and his detractors. He's said that criminals and rapists have crossed the border from Mexico and it's the truth. Every day illegal immigrants commit crimes in my city. Every single day. Last year we deported 139,000 convicted criminals and the majority of them came from Mexico and/or crossed the border from Mexico. Building a wall is a pie in the sky dream, but it's an absolute fact that we have a serious problem with criminals entering our country illegally. You can't even get into Canada with any criminal conviction (including DUI) on your record, but rapists, drug dealers, gang members and petty criminals are crossing our border every day. It needs to stop and that's why Trump's stance resonates with many Americans. But it's easier for his detractors to simply call him a racist and misogynist, and isn't it rich when Mexicans beat Trump protesters bloody and assault women and the mayor blames it on Trump?

 

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics

[uncool2pillow]

A serious candidate would address the issue as you have. The media have not twisted his words. His announcement speech was so obviously written to appeal to racists and xenophobes.

 

Now he calls a judge biased because he's Mexican. He's not. If I had an opportunity to question Trump, I would ask, "What doe the phrase 'e pluribus unum' mean to you?" I wonder if he even knows what it means.

 

I wish people who plan on voting for Trump because they agree with him on the issues more than Clinton would think long and hard about the damage his candidacy has already had on our culture then imagine what can happen over 4-8 years of a Trump presidency.

 

 

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[Hixter]

I wish people who plan on voting for Trump because they agree with him on the issues more than Clinton would think long and hard about the damage his candidacy has already had on our culture then imagine what can happen over 4-8 years of a Trump presidency.

Damage to our culture? What damage are you talking about?

[KevinG]

Words that have been twisted by the media and his detractors. 

 

There is a huge difference in saying we have a problem with criminals crossing the border then when Donald Trump said this:

 

 

 

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

 

Or this:

 

 

 

What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.

 

And of course the general notion is completely false:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

 

Yes, Trumps rhetoric resonates the wall sounds like a great idea.  But it won't work, nor does it address any problems.  It is easier to make immigrants a straw man and the villain, rather than look at the under lying problems of crime.  All Trump is doing is playing on the public perception, but clearly the facts do not support this.

[Hixter]

And of course the general notion is completely false:

They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.

 

 

When we're deporting hundreds of thousands of Mexicans who have been convicted of crimes including rape and drug offenses, no, that does not make what he said completely false. It makes it completely true.

 

I don't care what the ratio of illegal immigrants in prison versus the general population is. I care that hundreds of thousands of criminals are crossing the border into our country. I care that they're murdering and raping and committing crime here. That doesn't make me a racist and it doesn't make Donald Trump a racist, either.

 

Security at our southern border is a joke. And so is the government's efforts to improve the situation. Something needs to change, and there are enough Americans who feel the same way that Donald Trump might find himself residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in January.

[Ghost of Electricity]

The fact that we're deporting convicted criminals doesn't change the fact that we're making immigrants scapegoats, nor does it dress the underlying reasons for the crimes (as KevinG rightly states).

 

 

Newcomers to the U.S. are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or be incarcerated.

[Winston Legthigh]

The wall will keep out criminals, duh.

[Hixter]

Newcomers to the U.S. are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or be incarcerated.

Paywalled.

The fact that we're deporting convicted criminals doesn't change the fact that we're making immigrants scapegoats

Illegal immigrants. There's a big distinction.

[uncool2pillow]

Damage to our culture? What damage are you talking about?

 

Emboldening racists and xenophobes to spew hatred, explicitly condoning political violence by offers to pay legal fees for supporters who commit it.

 

 

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[Hixter]

Emboldening racists and xenophobes to spew hatred, explicitly condoning political violence

Emboldening racists and xenophobes to spew hatred, explicitly condoning political violence

 

Nothing new under the sun. Trump didn't invent such things, nor is he the only person who can be accused of such things.

[Tweedling]

It sure is easy to call someone racist. It's even easier to call a republican a racist. It seems fun for some on the left. I can't understand why when left politicians say racist things it gets swept under the rug as a joke or a misunderstanding.

Clinton saying "super predator" or the "cp time".

Or Obama and his typical white person remark

Or our beloved Vice President and his 7-eleven, Dunkin donuts comment.

Or his comment about Obama being the first mainstream African-American who's good looking, articulate, bright and CLEAN.

[Winston Legthigh]

 offers to pay legal fees for supporters who commit it.

 

Trump didn't invent such things, nor is he the only person who can be accused of such things.

 

 

You forgot that part. And, really? What other presidential candidate has done that?

[uncool2pillow]

Emboldening racists and xenophobes to spew hatred,explicitly condoning political violence

 

Nothing new under the sun. Trump didn't invent such things, nor is he the only person who can be accused of such things.

 

Kids at a basketball game in Iowa chant "Trump" at kids from a school with a large Latino population. I never claimed Trump invented this, I said he emboldened it. Pretty clear evidence of this. It's hateful, it's poisonous, and it ought to be considered anti-American. I'm teaching my kids that it is.

 

 

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[uncool2pillow]

http://whotv.com/2016/02/23/perry-basketball-players-targeted-by-degrading-trump-chants/

 

 

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[Hixter]

It sure is easy to call someone racist. It's even easier to call a republican a racist. It seems fun for some on the left. I can't understand why when left politicians say racist things it gets swept under the rug as a joke or a misunderstanding.

Clinton saying "super predator" or the "cp time".

Or Obama and his typical white person remark

Or our beloved Vice President and his 7-eleven, Dunkin donuts comment.

Or his comment about Obama being the first mainstream African-American who's good looking, articulate, bright and CLEAN.

The narrative has been established: only white Americans can be racist. All Republicans are racists, fascists, misogynists and warmongers. All Democrats are pinkos who hate America and want to abort babies. It makes it so much easier for the parties to garner votes when they demonize their opponents instead of addressing the important issues.

 

And, really? What other presidential candidate has done that?

Presidential candidates aren't the only people who can "damage our culture."

 

Kids at a basketball game in Iowa chant "Trump" at kids from a school with a large Latino population.

I live in a city which is 2/3 Hispanic. If someone chants "Hillary" in my presence is it a racist act?

 

When I was in high school it was common for opposing crowds of black kids to call us crackers and honkeys at football games. Was it Jimmy Carter's fault?

 

I've been racially harassed dozens of times in my life, but I've never done so myself. But I'm a crypto-racist if I vote for Donald Trump? Bullshit.

[The Inside of Outside]

I don't think you are a crypto-racist if you vote for Donald Trump. I think you are voting for a racist if you vote for Donald Trump. And I think many people who are not racist are going to vote for a racist.