Politics 2016 (election edition)

[KevinG]

When we're deporting hundreds of thousands of Mexicans who have been convicted of crimes including rape and drug offenses, no, that does not make what he said completely false. It makes it completely true.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with you that there are criminals coming to our country illegally.  But the notion that Mexico is sending these people and the majority of immigrants are criminals, which is what Trump is saying (otherwise why would you need to build a wall?)  And that is the notion that is false.  

 

 

I don't care what the ratio of illegal immigrants in prison versus the general population is. 

 

Yeah, why bother yourself with facts or nuance.  It is much easier to make something a scapegoat with rather then deal with real issues.  

 

I care that they're murdering and raping and committing crime here. That doesn't make me a racist and it doesn't make Donald Trump a racist, either.

 

I care that there are people murdering and raping and committing crimes.  There is no evidence that immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes then any other group.  You are refusing to look at the bigger picture.  By going after a small minority group as a solution, just because of where they are from or their heritage, is by definition racist.  

 

It sure is easy to call someone racist. It's even easier to call a republican a racist. 

 

One of the easiest way to deflect attention from someone's racist comments is to trot out the the line the Left is always calling people racist so it must not be true. Or trot out remember when this person on the Left said this one racist thing that one time, because of that you can't call the person on the Right racist.  

 

 I can't understand why when left politicians say racist things it gets swept under the rug as a joke or a misunderstanding.

 

I am not sure what you mean by swept under the rug.  Most of the things listed were covered in the news.  But here is the difference.  The items that you mentioned were comments, generally offhanded.  The comments were wrong and for the most part an apology was given.  What Donald Trump has said is a matter of his policies, things he wants to put in place.  So again you are comparing two entirely different things without a sense of context.   And even with his offhanded remarks and tweets.  Do you remember him apologizing for them?  

 

I've been racially harassed dozens of times in my life, but I've never done so myself. But I'm a crypto-racist if I vote for Donald Trump? Bullshit.

 

No you are not a cypto-racist if you vote for Donald Trump.  But you are voting for a racist (not crypto because I don't think it is a secret) if you vote for Donald Trump.  

[Doug C]

Hixter, if you honestly would feel comfortable with Donald Trump as president of the United States of America, then vote for him. But don't get in a snit if people judge you accordingly. I would not have made the same assumptions about you if you voted for any other Republican nominee in my lifetime. That's politics, you vote for the candidate that represents your values. Trump is different. Nothing qualifies him to be president. His command of the issues is non-existent and he uses fear, anger, ignorance and hate to garner support more blatantly than any nominee of either party in my lifetime. If you feel that he best represents your values, vote away. But expect people knowing that to judge you accordingly. This isn't Republican v. Democratic, conservative v. liberal, right v. left. This is serious shit.

[uncool2pillow]

The narrative has been established: only white Americans can be racist. All Republicans are racists, fascists, misogynists and warmongers. All Democrats are pinkos who hate America and want to abort babies. It makes it so much easier for the parties to garner votes when they demonize their opponents instead of addressing the important issues.

 

Presidential candidates aren't the only people who can "damage our culture."

 

I live in a city which is 2/3 Hispanic. If someone chants "Hillary" in my presence is it a racist act?

 

When I was in high school it was common for opposing crowds of black kids to call us crackers and honkeys at football games. Was it Jimmy Carter's fault?

 

I've been racially harassed dozens of times in my life, but I've never done so myself. But I'm a crypto-racist if I vote for Donald Trump? Bullshit.

If... A hypothetical. Moot. These kids weren't chanting "spic" or "wetback". They were chanting "Trump". Again, evidence that he has emboldened hatred. What, exactly, did Jimmy Carter do to embolden harassment you faced?

 

 

Hixter, if you honestly would feel comfortable with Donald Trump as president of the United States of America, then vote for him. But don't get in a snit if people judge you accordingly. I would not have made the same assumptions about you if you voted for any other Republican nominee in my lifetime. That's politics, you vote for the candidate that represents your values. Trump is different. Nothing qualifies him to be president. His command of the issues is non-existent and he uses fear, anger, ignorance and hate to garner support more blatantly than any nominee of either party in my lifetime. If you feel that he best represents your values, vote away. But expect people knowing that to judge you accordingly. This isn't Republican v. Democratic, conservative v. liberal, right v. left. This is serious shit.

This.

[uncool2pillow]

Now he calls a judge biased because he's Mexican. He's not.

 

 

Hixter, I notice you left this fact hanging out there. Any thoughts on this blatant racism?

[John Smith]

OK, someone sell me on Trump, sell his policies, how will he make America Great again and what that greatness will look like?  Accentuate the positive, tell me how he will be a good president.  Im serious too.  What do you see in him? I have a hard time seeing anything appealing when he speaks, so whatam I missing?

[lost highway]

Trump's selling point, right here:

 

"There was a time when offhand remarks could be made by just about any straight white man with a little money. Now you have all these "types" "throwing it in your face" and if you call it like you see it then they jump down your throat, the media might skewer you, you can even get fired. Now here comes a guy who's tired of having to watch what you say."

 

Sure this is a caricature, but my father in law is a nice man who wishes no harm to any particular individual, but as far as I can tell this is how he feels. Some folks are tired of feeling ashamed for reasons they can't understand because being politically correct is a tiresome effort full of pitfalls. They don't understand white privilege, their own subtle misogyny, or the fact that they are the upteenth generation to stomp their boots real hard when some swindling tycoon points to the outlanders and tells them "those guys are the reason you're taking home less than last year. "

[KevinG]

There are two main perceived selling points for Trump.

 

1) He is not Hillary Clinton (or other Democrat)

2) He is not part of the Washington Cartel and is his own man (which btw is bullshit)

 

I seems to me, at least, all of his many short comings are over looked because of these facts.  I don't think most Trump supporters can articulate why his policies would make our country better, other than they feel that Clinton's policies would make it worse.  People are willing to over look his racism, misogyny, lack of coherence and knowledge of the issues, simply because they they don't like Clinton. 

 

Take for example Hixter, the only person on this board who said they are going to vote for Trump.  Awhile back he mentioned that Clinton's comments on guns would make him feel less sick about voting for Trump.  He has offered no further explanation, especially when pressed. And I doubt he will.  This of course is his prerogative, but I think a fault and speaks volumes of Trump.  I also think he is indicative of many conservatives.  Look at the verbal gymnastics that many rank and file GOPers have done in the recent weeks throwing their support behind Trump.  Paul Ryan a man who said Trumps divisive views on immigration and race were not what the GOP stood for, threw his support behind Trump, the just days after he called a Judge a Mexican.  

 

You see conservatives wish to see to see their agendas furthered and the only way that will happen is by electing Trump.  There is a real fear that Hillary is going to take away their guns and turn our country into a place where the population is is taxed and we are under control of the government.  They would much rather potentially put our country in danger just to make sure they have their guns or whatever.  Honestly, if Mussolini were the GOP nominee he would get the same number of votes as any Republican candidate.  And it would be the same way on the other side.  If Stalin were the Dem nominee, democrats would vote for him.

 

This of course is a shame, because in my opinion nobody will look at the candidate's policies and actions anymore.  Trump has shown himself to be unqualified and lacking the temperament to be president.  These are facts, people can here have shown that repeatedly.  But conservatives do not care.  

 

If Trump was a guy at your work and he called someone a bimbo (to their face and to the whole company), or called someone Mexican (who wasn't) and said they could not do their job because of their heritage, they would at the very minimum be reprimanded or probably fired.  If Trump was at a house party and he repeatedly called someone names just because they disagreed with him, he would be ushered out of that party and punched in the face.  But simply put, his actions do not matter.  I do honestly think that many conservatives are embarrassed by the choice of their party.  And this is why, one of the reasons you will find so few who can articulate  why they are voting for Trump.  Or why despite his many failings, he should be president.  But because he is not Hillary, they will vote for him anyways.   

 

I have come to the realization that Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, and despite her hubris (which IMHO is her biggest failing and the reason for her email troubles and truthiness on her past policy positions, etc).  She is extremely qualified and has a vision for America that I would like to see put forth.  I for one and would not be embarrassed of who she is and what she has done.   If someone where to ask me, because of X, why would you still vote for Clinton.  I would not back down form that.  I think most Clinton supporters would do that.  But again conservatives will appear to overlook their candidates failures.  Mostly because he is not Clinton and beyond that, it seems they do not have a good reason for voting for Trump.   

[LouieB]

Trump is a proto-fascist bigot (maybe that is redundant I don't know.)  Voting for him is voting for fascism and is clearly un-American.  

 

When he used the term "my African American" I totally lost it.  

 

LouieB

[John Smith]

I get his appeal to the chest beaters of the world, but through all the bluster and rhetoric I have no idea what his actual workable policies might be. (building a wall and having Mexico pay for it is not a workable policy)

[Winston Legthigh]

Yay Republicans.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMartinDaniel/status/739194801308979200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Fucking asshole.

[calvino]

Yay Republicans.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMartinDaniel/status/739194801308979200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Fucking asshole.

 

 

That's really not a just a Republican stance --- my dad is a 77 year old Democrat who still holds the whole Vietnam thing against him. (My dad served - in between Korea and Vietnam)  

 

I don't agree with my dad and others - my dad and I had great conversations about it.

[KevinG]

Yay Republicans.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMartinDaniel/status/739194801308979200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Fucking asshole.

I assume he has similar thoughts about Trump, GWB, Cheney, and Rush Limbaugh.

[Winston Legthigh]

That's really not a just a Republican stance --- my dad is a 77 year old Democrat who still holds the whole Vietnam thing against him. (My dad served - in between Korea and Vietnam)

 

I don't agree with my dad and others - my dad and I had great conversations about it.

Having the opinion that being a conscientious objector is a black mark on one's soul is one thing. To publicly say so on the day Ali died is a fucking disgrace. To refer to Ali as Cassius Clay is disrespectful as hell and something Good Ol Boys used to do as a power play back in the day, a tradition I'm sure this politician is aware of.

 

Shit flows downhill, not up. This fucknuts should respect his betters.

 

And wouldn't you know it, TN State Rep Martin Daniels has as much military experience as Ali. None.

[calvino]

Old man Daley never would call him Ali, either. Below is great piece on Ali's life in Chicago. Just learned that four of his kids graduated from my local high school. When I lived in the city, I lived near his old city' house - didn't realize that I moved near his or his mother of children's suburban house.

 

It is crazy and dumb that some politicians try to gain some cheap political's points on someone's death - but I guess many of the dude's constituents agree with him.

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-muhammad-ali-chicago-20160604-story.html

[John Smith]

The issue of calling him Cassius Clay right now is pretty common in comments attached to news stories as are the draft dodging comments.  I wonder though if those same people called Marion Morrison his real name when he died or noted that he did not serve during WWII? the List of people who changed their names is a long one:  Benjamin Kubelsky, Reginald Dwight, Norma Jean Mortenson, BErnard Schwartz, Betty Jo Perskey, Dino Paul Crocetti, RIchard Jenkins etc... BUt I seriously doubt that the vultures and low lifes making the comments have referred to any of these people by their birth names.

 

Edit...

 

Daniel followed that tweet up with a tweet about " Liberals can dance with joy the day #justicescalia dies, but we cant say one thing about Cassius Clay and his love of the nation of Islam"  

 

Yea,umm who in a position of power on the left was dancing with Joy? Or is this something Daniel assumed? ANd if he feels this percieved lsight was wrong, how does doing something he equates with a wrong act make it right? Also Ali had not been associated with the Nation of Islam for over 40 years. and of course Daniel did not reference the nation of Islam in his original tweet.

[tinnitus photography]

Yay Republicans.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMartinDaniel/status/739194801308979200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Fucking asshole.

that guy's a real piece of work:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2016/05/10/state-rep-martin-daniel-why-does-a-fourth-grader-need-to-learn-about-race

I assume he has similar thoughts about Trump, GWB, Cheney, and Rush Limbaugh.

A+

[Sir Stewart]

Hixter, if you honestly would feel comfortable with Donald Trump as president of the United States of America, then vote for him. But don't get in a snit if people judge you accordingly. I would not have made the same assumptions about you if you voted for any other Republican nominee in my lifetime. That's politics, you vote for the candidate that represents your values. Trump is different. Nothing qualifies him to be president. His command of the issues is non-existent and he uses fear, anger, ignorance and hate to garner support more blatantly than any nominee of either party in my lifetime. If you feel that he best represents your values, vote away. But expect people knowing that to judge you accordingly. This isn't Republican v. Democratic, conservative v. liberal, right v. left. This is serious shit.

 

Well said.

[ih8music]

Or just admit that you're voting for the jersey and not the orange-faced buffoon wearing it.

[John Smith]

Normally I don't, but in this case I have more respect for people who will vote for the candidate simply because of the letter next to his name over those who vote because they agree with him and find him to be in line with their personal views. I didn't think it was possible, but I think he's s worse candidate than Bush.

[KevinG]

Normally I don't, but in this case I have more respect for people who will vote for the candidate simply because of the letter next to his name over those who vote because they agree with him and find him to be in line with their personal views. 

 

I feel the exact opposite.  Trump is dangerous, his views would put this country in jeopardy.  I think if you vote for someone just because of the letter behind their name you are saying your political agenda is more important than the harm he would do to the country.  Every single republican who denounced Trump earlier on and is now support him is a coward.  

[John Smith]

I'm referring to the mindlessness of voting the party regardless of who the candidate is over actually supporting his views. I view voting party line as an uncontrollable reptilian response(both parties).

[KevinG]

I'm referring to the mindlessness of voting the party regardless of who the candidate is over actually supporting his views. I view voting party line as an uncontrollable reptilian response(both parties).

Mindless is one thing, but look at Paul Ryan, Rick Perry, Mitch McConnell, and other high level Republicans. These are a group who have said things like, Trumps views on race have no place in the GOP, he is a cancer on conversation, etc. Now they are willing to turn their back on our nation, put a dangerous man in office so they can further their agenda. That is cowardly. That is shameful.

[John Smith]

I know those are the guys in power who have done a 180.

 

Aguy I know, who is legitimately close to being a billionaire, started out with Jeb. Thought he was best for the country. Could not stand Trump, who he knows personally. When Jeb dropped he hopped on the Rubio bandwagon and still could not stand Trump as a candidate. When Rubio dropped he could not bring himself to back Cruz and still could not stand Trump. Now that Trump stands alone he still can't stand him but is voting for him in spite of the fact that he knows trump will be awful for the country. Why? Because his reptilian response kicked in and he has to vote republican. There are tons of people like him who can't help themselves.

 

I get what you are saying about people like him voting for Trump in spite of knowing the shit storm he is going to bring with him. This guy thinks the establishment can control Trump as do so many like him. It's sad. The people who scare me the most are the ones who listen to Trump and understand him and are in agreement with him.

 

I also think these people , Ryan etc... Show their true colors and put party and ideology over country.

[LouieB]

This election isn't even about ideology for the Republicans.  There is nothing ideological about Trump.  He is simply a racist and a bigot.  This election may be the first one ever to be simply about the Supreme Court and both sides know it (at least most on the left know it too.)  Just wait for Judge Garland to get approved before this thing is over in November. 

 

White America is back to freaking out and Trump holds out the last hope to keep this country as white as possible.  And Trump is betting he can win by telling everyone he is going to bring jobs back to the US of A, but he has as little idea how to do that as anyone else.  

 

LouieB

[John Smith]

"There will come a time when the love of country will trump hatred of Hillary" - Lindsey Graham

 

Graham must be planning on retiring because this will earn him a target on his back when he comes up for reelection.