awatt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 If this is not one of the greatest recordings of all time, what exactly would rank ahead of it? Opening a can of worms, I'm sure, and something that has undoubtedly been covered in VC numerous times. But really, in terms of influence on the direction of pop/rock/white boy music, can't really be too many more important albums. Also, hear the influence on Summerteeth, which means quite a bit to me. IMHO.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
airtaco Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I agree with you, AWATT: I can think of too many more imporant pure pop records. It's probably in my top 10, and I listen to it more than any Beatles record (at present, at least). On the other hand, I thought the Smile issued in 2004 was perhaps the stupidest sounding recording I've ever heard. How's that for contrast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I don't think I've ever listened to that record in its entirety. Git R Done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I would say that the Beatles put out 7 albums that are each better than Pet Sounds. Help, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour, The Beatles (White), Abbey Road Don't be too harsh on me, this is just my opinion, and I am young. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Do a google search using the words Paul McCartney and Pet Sounds - see what you find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Do a google search using the words Paul McCartney and Pet Sounds - see what you find. Just because the Beatles loved it doesn't mean I have to! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
awatt Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Let me be bold: We would not even be here if it wasn't for Pet Sounds. Paul knows it. Jeff knows it. Pete knows it. I think we can end this thread now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 On Pet Sounds "I really wasn't quite ready for the unity. It felt like it all belonged together. Rubber Soul was a collection of songs ... that somehow went together like no album ever made before, and I was very impressed. I said, 'That's it. I really am challenged to do a great album." -Brian Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Let me be bold: We would not even be here if it wasn't for Pet Sounds. Paul knows it. Jeff knows it. Pete knows it. I think we can end this thread now. I think you're pretty much right. Brian did Pet Sounds to beat Revolver, and in some ways he must have succeeded (though more in an orchestration way than a rock way), because Pet Sounds was a huge influence on Paul's Sgt. Pepper work. Brian admitted that Sgt. Pepper kicked their ass, so you could put that ahead of Pet Sounds, but that's about it.There, that takes care of that. (Riiiiiiiiiight....) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I think you're pretty much right. Brian did Pet Sounds to beat Revolver, and in some ways he must have succeeded (though more in an orchestration way than a rock way), because Pet Sounds was a huge influence on Paul's Sgt. Pepper work. Brian admitted that Sgt. Pepper kicked their ass, so you could put that ahead of Pet Sounds, but that's about it.There, that takes care of that. (Riiiiiiiiiight....)I think I made that point before too. Pet sounds is a great album, revolver and rubber soul are even better. The Beach Boys were a big hit band prior to the Beatles and as Brian Wilson said some years ago, the Beatles came along and made them look like (I forget the exact words) car parkers. Brian had to try and out do the Beatles and regain his hold on the music buying public. He succeeded to a large degree, but eventually got left in the dust by any number of other artists. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
awatt Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 He succeeded to a large degree, but eventually got left in the dust by any number of other artists. LouieB Amen, brother. This is not an album I returned to again and again. I recognize its brilliance and influence, but not something that has much more than historical value to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 i still give a couple of the tracks almost god-status, though. some are weaker than the others, which doesn't help it at all... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 True enough....there are some songs on it that are some of the greatest pop songs ever done. Wouldn't It Be Nice is amazing as is Caroline No, some of the others are lyrically pretty weak. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 So what - only Bob Dylan was doing anything differenet then. The lyrics fit the songs. Or form follows function. As for studio trickery - Sgt. Pepper is all about that: ADT, sped up tapes, massive overdubbing, etc. There is no way in hell The Beatles could hold a candle to the vocals of The Beach Boys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 So what - only Bob Dylan was doing anything differenet then. The lyrics fit the songs. Or form follows function. As for studio trickery - Sgt. Pepper is all about that: ADT, sped up tapes, massive overdubbing, etc. There is no way in hell The Beatles could hold a candle to the vocals of The Beach Boys. I am with you. The vocals of The Beach Boys (not just on this album, but others after it) are in a different league than any other band. The lyrics fit the music perfectly, you are right. Also, The Beach Boys (not this album, but the late 1960's early 70's band) influenced Super Furry Animals massively, and seeing as how they are my favourite modern band I hold The Beach Boys in higher esteem than The Beatles (no doubt Super Furry Animals like The Beatles too, who doesn't?, but that doesn't mean they had the same influence on the types of bands and music I like). It's also worth baring in mind that Rubber Soul has a song about driving, a dylan copy, and a whole bunch of teen-love songs. On paper, the subject matter is far from special, but like Pet Sounds it works on record. Then there's Revolver, which has Yellow Submarine - Uncut Magazine had a great piece about what Ray Davis thought of it back when it was released from melody maker and he was far from praising it, so to say it was universally influential is stretching it some-what, or maybe it was influential in the way it made The Kinks turn their back on that type of music and make the best run of albums of their career - so in a weird way, maybe the Beatles can be thanked for that. Shit, sorry - this turned into another ramble. (i should make seperate posts in future, with the editted highlights). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I have been listening to both bands since I was about 6 years old - so I say these things out of the love I have for them both. It's just a shame The Beach Boys always get tagged as unimportant due to not having "deep lyrics" or a "heavy image". If you listen to ltheir later stuff or view later images of them, you can see that they actually did change with the times - but they had been marked as unhip by then - so no one paid any attention. When Pet Sounds came out Capitol put out a greatist hits album - as they were not pleased with Pet Sounds - just as Mike Love was not. Why? Becasue Brian was "changing the formula" - maybe if he didn't have people holding him back and if his head was in a better place The Beach Boys may have ended up with a better image than they have today. The Beatles certainly had more freedom to do as they pleased - moreso than Brian ever got to have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 The Beatles certainly had more freedom to do as they pleased - moreso than Brian ever got to have.This is true... I have a vinyl copy of the 80s reissue, that's all I can claim. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigideas Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Does anyone know what makes the big difference in the sound of Pet Sounds and say their albums Friends through Surf's Up? Sunflower and Surf's Up just have such lush beautiful production. did studio technology advance that much in that time or what? i know Brian was not as involved during those albums, but those songs he contributed here and there where amazing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 A lot of that stuff was recorded in Brian's house. Also, you are hearing stereo tracks as opposed to mono, individual vocals instead of group vocals, and the work of Stephen Desper (enigineer) among other things. Also - I think they went from 4 track to 8 track recording by the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Does anyone know what makes the big difference in the sound of Pet Sounds and say their albums Friends through Surf's Up? Sunflower and Surf's Up just have such lush beautiful production. did studio technology advance that much in that time or what? i know Brian was not as involved during those albums, but those songs he contributed here and there where amazing. You should include Carl & The Passions and Holland in that list too. If you haven't got them, I highly recommend them - both those albums sound very modern to me in a lot of places. I also think those albums you mentioned stand out above most other albums of the times too, and I can't really understand why they never really sold so well. I also think that the flowering of Dennis and Carl as song writers during that period made them a better band because they had far more sides to them. You had Dennis's heartfelt ballads, Carls's soul sides, Brian still making great tunes, Mike doing the old stuff (which kept that pop side to them) and Al making interesting music too. It's amazing how much fun they have on those albums too - they are willing to try pretty much anything - more like an experimental indie band today, than major recording artists. I still think Brian did a lot of production work in those days, but the others contributed a lot more. The fact that they play on the albums also makes them warmer than session players ever could. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thisyearsgirl Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 greatest album ever. enough said. definitely one of the top five albums of the "rock era"...whatever that means. it's simply fantastic. i'm too tired to expound...just got back from niagara falls...7 hours, in a car, alone. i just felt i needed to contribute and back up one of my faves ever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Does anyone think that the Beach Boys invented singing in harmony or orchestration? In fact there were hundreds of do-wop groups that influenced them and there was plenty of orchestration prior to Pet Sounds as well. If Brian was trying to compete with anyone it was Phil Spector. And much of that work was done live in the studio as well. Brian built on some popular forms of music that already had quite a bit of history. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesizer Patel Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Does anyone think that the Beach Boys invented singing in harmony or orchestration? In fact there were hundreds of do-wop groups that influenced them and there was plenty of orchestration prior to Pet Sounds as well. If Brian was trying to compete with anyone it was Phil Spector. And much of that work was done live in the studio as well. Brian built on some popular forms of music that already had quite a bit of history. LouieB All music in the 1960's 'built on some popular forms of music that already had quite a bit of history', nobody works in a vacuum. If you're trying to imply that The Beach Boys music is less important to some of the other major acts of the time because of this, then at least apply the critism across the board. Fair enough, if you don't like them as much, but you seem to be implying that they aren't as original as other acts of the time, when I believe they were original in the fact that they brought together various musical forms and put them together in a wholly original way - in much the same way that The Beatles or Bob Dylan did. At the end of the day, they are still the greatest vocal group ever, not the first, but the greatest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thisyearsgirl Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 At the end of the day, they are still the greatest vocal group ever, not the first, but the greatest. well said, my friend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 All music in the 1960's 'built on some popular forms of music that already had quite a bit of history', nobody works in a vacuum. If you're trying to imply that The Beach Boys music is less important to some of the other major acts of the time because of this, then at least apply the critism across the board. Fair enough, if you don't like them as much, but you seem to be implying that they aren't as original as other acts of the time, when I believe they were original in the fact that they brought together various musical forms and put them together in a wholly original way - in much the same way that The Beatles or Bob Dylan did. At the end of the day, they are still the greatest vocal group ever, not the first, but the greatest.I never said i didn't LIKE the Beach Boys. I like them quite alot. Nor am I criticiizing them either. They were a great vocal group, but they may or may not be the greatest vocal group of all time. I just find it interesting that because they sang in harmony that makes them the greatest vocal group in history when there were many many other groups singing in harmony as well. Ignore the scads of do-wop and other groups if you wish, but they were there singing their hearts out in four part harmony for years before the Beach Boys got their start. Maybe someone can explain to me what innovation in harmony singing the Beach Boys developed that I don't currently understand. Maybe someone can also explain what innovation to orchestration they developed as well. The Beach Boys will always be the biggest selling and most recognizable band doing harmony, fair enough. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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