snow ships Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 A longtime Wilco fan, I'm only recently admitting to myself that Wilco have always been kind of, well, boring. I guess I should blame myself for being a terrible fan also. It's just, I've always been douped into loving them for one reason or another.To their credit, they've kept me interested though, and I still buy their releases and come read what fellow fans think about them. A little history: With A.M. I had just gotten over a love affair with Alabama and found Wilco to be a more rocking alternative with someone trying to sound like Westerberg up front- which rocked. On Being There I fell into love with Tweedy's earnestness. The way he kind of coughed out feelings in words like "deep in my heart" curling the 'r' like a hook into my ears, the way he ripped Randy Newman ('Was I In Your Dreams") without sounding too swanky or fake. After listening to Summerteeth I was convinced they were the heirs to Chilton-rock. Then came YHF which is their best album regardless of which album I'm liking most or any one has a stronger relationship with. After my first listen, I knew it was brilliant but I had no idea why. I've probably played this album once a month since it was released and it still sounds as fresh today as the first time I listened. When I first heard A Ghost Is Born my opinion of Jeff Tweedy as a musician was begining to wane. This was primarily due to my continued love-affair with AGIB; the more I listened to it, the more boring the actual songs seemed, the more gutless they sounded when Tweedy would do them solo. After reading Adult Head, I was convinced I'd invested far too much faith in a merely decent rock band. I blushed-- a lot. I blushed when I noticed Jeff Tweedy had no idea how to end a song. I blushed during the simulation of a migraine headache. I blushed mostly when I thought of how apologetic I'd been about Wilco as one of the great American bands. Since 2003 I've been a casual fan. That is, I will casually allow Wilco to pull the wool over my eyes, disguising their gimmicky brand of pop music as something more significant. But for every Nels Cline and Jim O'rourke there is a hawked Neu! song like Spiders (Kidsmoke) or a lyric like "there's so much less to this than you think." And now that I realize Wilco are a boring band fronted by a musically empty soul-cougher, I still love them. I'm listening to Summerteeth right now. It's cute in all those ways nothing really is. In this way it's got more in common with NBC's the office than Big Star's Third Sister. Having cleared the air, I feel like Wilco's new album is Jeff Tweedy's most musically honest album. I think this is what he most naturally is. He sounds comfortable and level-headed. His lyrics are shitty and shallow and he doesn't sound embarrassed chirping them like he's Elvis. This might be the first album since A.M. on which the songs consistently finish themselves without trinkling off into electronic noise, feedback, some other blanket Tweedy usually hides under when the words are done-- these are all steps foward. There is a lot going on in this album that Tweedy should feel good about, and based on interviews, he is does. Still, there is one slight step backwards that ruins this album for me, and that's the care-free stumble into irrelevance. By finally being proud to be themselves, Wilco have proven me wrong once and for all, and it's a shame... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I would be curioius to who you would gesture towards as an example of lyrics that aren't shitty and shallow. You probably don't need to guess that there are hundreds of people on here that would love to battle that point out with you. But, before any such thing happens, I wonder whats your antidote. Who writes a good line if Tweedy's are 'shitty'? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I'd just like to respond that i have no idea how to respond to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yankhotelfox Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Wow! Quite a rant! Luckily for that guy's sake, there's still Dave Matthews, Coldplay, and maybe even Hootie and the Blowfish. I'd be curious to read a positive rant about someone that snow ships likes a lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhh4321 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Wow! Quite a rant! Luckily for that guy's sake, there's still Dave Matthews, Coldplay, and maybe even Hootie and the Blowfish. I'd be curious to read a positive rant about someone that snow ships likes a lot. In fairness to snow ships, he didn't "rant," he made a pretty coherent argument. While I personally don't agree with what he had to say, his points are respectable and it is clear he knows his Wilco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes, but in any discussion of art, lit., music etc. It is usually more persuasive to provide a decent example when making an umbrella statement like "I realize Wilco are a boring band fronted by a musically empty soul-cougher" and why would you follow that up by "I Still Love Them"? Thats like saying this band is freakin dumb and repugnant, but I like them because I am the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Col. Hapablap Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes, but in any discussion of art, lit., music etc. It is usually more persuasive to provide a decent example when making an umbrella statement like "I realize Wilco are a boring band fronted by a musically empty soul-cougher" and why would you follow that up by "I Still Love Them"? Thats like saying this band is freakin dumb and repugnant, but I like them because I am the same. Right. I'm not saying he's completely wrong but I don't understand his angle. "I still love them. They are really good but my goodness, don't they suck? They are so boring.' It's hard to make a case that you still like the band. There are plenty of contradictory statements in the argument. A few may be valid, but its Kind of a strange post...hard to respond to and harder still to agree with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhh4321 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I'm just suggesting that some slack be cut because it is clear this guy has it coming to him posting something like that on a Wilco board. I've seen a lot of "rants" on this board and most of them are incoherent messes of anger. Snow Ships made some decent points and maybe some people should consider some of what he has to say. Don't get me wrong, Wilco are my favorite band of all time, but no band is perfect and sometimes people tend to forget that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Col. Hapablap Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I'm just suggesting that some slack be cut because it is clear this guy has it coming to him posting something like that on a Wilco board. I've seen a lot of "rants" on this board and most of them are incoherent messes of anger. Snow Ships made some decent points and maybe some people should consider some of what he has to say. Don't get me wrong, Wilco are my favorite band of all time, but no band is perfect and sometimes people tend to forget that. That i can agree with. Neither Jeff Tweedy nor Wilco are perfect, which is actually why i admire them so much. Knowing all of the issues and imperfections that they have overcome to make music actually endears me to them that much more. I agree with the opinion that on SBS, Tweedy seems to be showing a side of himself that he has always wanted to come out. He's been through a lot of shit and has finally come out the other side with his body. mind, and soul intact and the album reflects that peaceful mood. I don't think SBS is their best record, or my favorite(not yet, anyway) but it certainly is not an irrelevant album. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheMaker Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 What a tortured soul! He hates loving Wilco. Or maybe he loves hating them. After reading his post, I'm really not sure what point he was trying to make. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WaronWar Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Your statment is rather orgainze and thoughtful, but you are assuming a lot about Tweedy's personal life that we (VC'ers) have no idea about. As a guess, I think he is feeling better because he is healthy now rather than he feels that he knows how to end a song. But honestly I can't say because I am not inside his brain, I am in my own. Also, your statement of I blushed when I noticed Jeff Tweedy had no idea how to end a song. I blushed during the simulation of a migraine headache. This might be the first album since A.M. on which the songs consistently finish themselves without trinkling off into electronic noise, feedback, some other blanket Tweedy usually hides under when the words are done-- these are all steps foward. I don't think he ended some songs with white noise just because he did not know how to end a song. I think the sonics of YHF comment on the rather very dark emotional lyrics. Moreover, the codas of AGIB also have a placement to; for example, "Handshake Drugs" is a perfect demonstration on the pain and struggles within the lyrics. As a result of Wilco's amazing white noise codas, I think they serve the purpose of commenting on the feelings within the lyrics that words cannot say. In short, the best music has a reason and in my opinion I think their music does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jethro Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I had just gotten over a love affair with AlabamaI probably shouldn't respond but, fuck, how can you not. What a maroon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WaronWar Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on this:he ripped Randy Newman ('Was I In Your Dreams") without sounding too swanky or fake. After listening to Summerteeth I was convinced they were the heirs to Chilton-rock. Since 2003 I've been a casual fan. That is, I will casually allow Wilco to pull the wool over my eyes, disguising their gimmicky brand of pop music as something more significant. But for every Nels Cline and Jim O'rourke there is a hawked Neu! song like Spiders (Kidsmoke) or a lyric like "there's so much less to this than you think." In any art, as Mark Twain has mentioned (can't quote him directly) nothing is sacred because the Greeks took all the ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
froggie Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 my friends think wilco are boring.... but i still like my friends and love the band Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Well, Wilco ain't Atari Teenage Riot, but I love them anyways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Gyrrr Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 snow ships=jeff tweedy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Gyrrr Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 more seriously I have analysed Wilcos music more than any other band I have listened to. I don't know why really maybe sometimes I am trying to figure if they are great or rubbish. At the moment I am listening to the stream from Wilco web and am certain that they are great. Great to hear your well spoken oppinion shippy .....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Marooon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Opinions are like assholes ..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 fronted by a musically empty soul-cougherTweedy was not in Soul Coughing, but this album would have been even awesomer if he had been on it. As for a more serious reply, I do think it is interesting that the people who seem most disappointed with Wilco/Tweedy, whether over the new album or just a growing unease in general, seem to be the ones most invested in the idea of Tweedy as some sort of musical savior. I guess I just never bought into that line of thinking --I remember his budding, awkward moments in UT. If anything, Farrar was supposed to be the "genius" back then, and I think that's why I've been frequently disappointed with his subsequent career, Tweedy's, on the other hand, has been a pleasant surprise to watch how he has developed. Wilco has been probably my favorite band for about a decade.(others have come and gone, but they have somehow remained in steady rotation for me) I can relate to some of the comments you made in there, but I'm not sure what your overall point was. Short version (as I read it): "I hate them. Don't worry, I still love them....but I hate them." Ummm...ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokestack Joe Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 people want to over-analyze music and try to find the missing puzzle piece in song. that is all fine but also music is great for what it just IS. thats why i like wilco, you can dig it and appreciate it for its simple sides, just grooving to the music, instead of trying to analyze stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Good bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 That post was a cry for help. Won't somebody help him? ...'cause it ain't gonna be me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WilcoFan Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Pretty neat post. I think you guys were missing the point. I read this as tongue in cheek and admittedly hypocritical. Sometime we can't control even our guiltiest pleasures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I'd just like to respond that i have no idea how to respond to that.Me either... That post was a cry for help. Won't somebody help him?...'cause it ain't gonna be me. Me either...I think one should never totally trust a first time poster... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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