Nappy Headed Hoes

[Spawn's dad]

where did they announce that?

[EL the Famous]

where did they announce that?

 

Breaking headline on CNN.

 

Sharpton and Jackson emerged from a meeting with Moonves saying the CBS corporate chief had promised to consider their requests.

 

"It's not about taking Imus down' date='" Sharpton said. "It's about lifting decency up."[/quote']

 

Fuck those two...seriously. What a fucking joke this whole thing has become.

[Spawn's dad]

it really is a circus. why does anyone need to take those two seriously?

 

shit, what are they going to move those mid day idiots to the morning? this really sucks on a lot of levels.

[EL the Famous]

Again this is a great op ed piece by another black journalist on why this REALLY sucks...

 

It's more than just Imus

-Shaun Powell/NY Newsday

April 12, 2007

 

In retrospect, outraged people shouldn't have united and screamed "blank you" to Don Imus the last few days. No, instead, we should've stuck out our hand and said, "Thank you."

 

We should feel indebted to a shriveled, unfunny, insensitive frog for being so ignorant that he actually did us all a favor. He woke society the hell up. He grabbed it by the throat, shook hard and ordered us to take a long, critical look at ourselves and the mess we've made and ignored for much too long. He made us examine the culture and the characters we've created for ourselves, our impressionable young people and our future.

 

Had Imus not called a bunch of proud and innocent young women "nappy-headed hos," would we be as ashamed of what we see as we are today?

 

Or, to quote Rutgers coach C. Vivian Stringer: "Have we really lost our moral fiber?"

 

And our minds as well?

 

I'm not sure if the last few days will serve as a watershed moment for this MTV, middle-finger, screw-you generation. Probably not, according to my hunch. A short time from now, the hysteria will turn to vapor, folks will settle back into their routines, somebody will pump up the volume on the latest poison produced by hip-hop while Al Sharpton and the other racial ambulance chasers will find other guilt-ridden white folks to shake for fame and cash. In five minutes, the entire episode of Imus and his strange idea of humor will be older than his hairstyle. Lessons learned will be lessons forgotten.

 

I wish I were wrong about that last part. But I doubt it, because any minute now, black people will resume calling themselves bitches and hos and the N-word and in the ultimate sign of hypocrisy, neither Rutgers nor anyone else will call a news conference about that.

 

Because when we really get to the root of the problem, this isn't about Imus. This is about a culture we -- meaning black folks -- created and condoned and packaged for white power brokers to sell and shock jocks like Imus to exploit. Can we talk?

 

Tell me: Where did an old white guy like Imus learn the word "ho"?

 

Was that always part of his vocabulary? Or did he borrow it from Jay-Z and Dave Chappelle and Snoop Dogg?

 

What really disappointed me about that exhausting Rutgers news conference, which was slyly used as a recruiting pitch by Stringer, was the absence of the truth and the lack of backbone and courage. Black women had the perfect opportunity to lash out at their most dangerous oppressors -- black men -- and yet they kept the focus on a white guy.

 

It was a tremendous letdown for me, personally and professionally. I wanted Stringer, and especially her players, many of whom listen to rap and hip-hop, to take Nelly to task. Or BET. Or MTV. Or the gangsta culture that is suffocating our kids. They had the ear and eye of the nation trained upon them, and yet these women didn't get to the point and the root of the matter. They danced around it, and I guess I should've known better, because black people still refuse to lash out against those black people who are doing harm to us all.

 

Honestly, I wasn't holding my breath for Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, a pair of phony and self-appointed leaders, because they have their agendas and financial stakes. I was hoping 10 young women, who have nothing on the line, who are members of a young culture, would train their attention to within the race, name names and say enough is enough. But they didn't, and I was crushed.

 

You should walk around the playground and the elementary and high schools today and listen to how young black people speak to each other, treat each other and tease each other. You'd be ashamed. Next, sample some of their CDs and look at the video games they're playing. And while you're at it, blame yourself for funding this garbage, for allowing your kids to support these companies and for not taking a stand against it or the so-called artists making it happen.

 

Black folks, for whatever reason, can be their own worst enemy. The last several days, the media had us believe it was Don Imus. But deep down, we know better.

 

...i'm really curious on just how much of the 'black community' really gave a shit about what Imus said until Sharpton and Jackson got involved. Again, this a bigger travesty than just some washed up DJ getting canned...it's just digging a bigger hole for people of color to get out of.

[MattZ]

This sucks ass.

[Spawn's dad]

Michael Kaye is on fire right now.

[JUDE]

Now the healing can begin.

[bobbob1313]

I loved the clip from the Daily Show where they showed Imus talking to Al Sharpton and the congresswoman, and Imus said "I'm not gonna let you people drag me down" or something and Sharpton actually went to the high school remark "Wait, wait wait, what do you mean "you people"?"

 

Sharpton and Jackson are jokes.

[Edie]

Again this is a great op ed piece by another black journalist on why this REALLY sucks...

...i'm really curious on just how much of the 'black community' really gave a shit about what Imus said until Sharpton and Jackson got involved. Again, this a bigger travesty than just some washed up DJ getting canned...it's just digging a bigger hole for people of color to get out of.

 

I couldn't agree with this more. I just wish that more people would read it -- and act on it.

[M. (hristine]

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

 

Martin Luther King said this some years ago, and it applies to all of us, regardless of our color, gender or culture. I don't see anybody with clean hands on this deal.

[Analogman]

Opie & Anthony. I've been listening to them since they came on to replace Stern's original replacement here in Chicago. They aren't anywhere near as good as Stern, but they had a killer moment within discussion of this whole debacle the other day, when Whoopi Goldberg called their radio show during hers to get on their case for defending him and stated Imus should be fired. She hung up when they brought up:

 

 

A-man, none of those examples you brought up were anything racially or even gender motivated. However, I know there are urban radio stations w/ black DJ's they are constantly ripping on other races/genders/sexual preferences and my guess is that none of them have been fired for similair comments.

 

and yeah, the Rutger players going on Oprah is just going to fix everything. Fucking A.

 

Well - when it comes down to it - a big company like that is not going to take the hit for him.

 

Also - non-comedian white dudes can not get away with trying to mimic black people for the sake of whatever he was trying to do - I don't think that will ever change.

 

As a black dude I know says - "You can call me a n and I will get mad, I can call you a honky and you will just laugh."

 

I suppose Howard Stern must have been bringing a lot of money into NBC for them to never get rid of him.

[cryptique]

So, when does his new show on XM start?

[Beltmann]

All of this makes me want to revisit Bamboozled, which confronted these same issues--especially the free pass given to toxic hip-hop--some time back. It's flawed, but at the time I thought it was an important movie.

[wheelco]

El Imus Se Fue

[MrRain422]

I'm just curious if all of those who have expressed problems with hip-hop lyrics object to these things in all music, or only in hip-hop. Not long ago I had a discussion with someone at work about similar topics. He said that hip-hop that advocates violence has no place in our culture. I asked him if he wanted Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues" banned, as in that song he sings about killing a man just to watch him die. He insisted it was a different thing, but couldn't explain why.

 

I'm not throwing any accusations toward anyone here, but I do think a there's some closet-racism attached to a lot of the anti-hip-hop ideas I've heard thrown around in the media in the last week. Please take this as more of a critique of the entire public debate on this subject rather than an assault on anyone here.

 

The fact of the matter is, there is a lot of hip-hop music about a lot of different subjects. Yeah, the most popular stuff often has some pretty violent and/or misogynistic imagery to it, but that hardly covers the entire genre. It's clear to me that a lot of people who have defended Imus by citing rap lyrics really don't know a think about rap. For one thing, as I said, there is a lot of rap that doesn't promote any of those negative things. But more importantly, I personally think that context does matter. One person saying "ho" is not the same as another saying "ho", just as Chris Rock using the word "nigger" in his act is simply not the same as Michael Richards yelling it at hecklers in a fit of anger. Simply writing about a subject is not the same as promoting it. Some rappers are promoting violence and misogony. This is absolutely true. But a lot of them are simply writing about things they experienced growing up in some rough places. And that's what artistic expression is all about. Rapping about someone getting shot is not automatically an endorsement of shooting someone. And one person saying something that some may find dispicable does not automatically justify another person saying the same thing in a completely different context.

 

I do think that Sharpton has gone overboard with this whole situation. I'm not defending him at all. Personally, I think that Imus has said many, many worse things that would justify him losing his job more than this did. I don't feel bad for Imus at all -- if you make your career out of saying offensive things, then you have to be prepared for the consequences of offending people. I don't like the grandstanding that some of done while speaking out against Imus, but I also don't like the insincerity and in some cases closet-racism of some of the people who have spoken out to defend him.

[Beltmann]

Like movies, some music is violent, while other music is about violence. (Deciding which is which isn't always simple, though.)

[cryptique]

I'm just curious if all of those who have expressed problems with hip-hop lyrics object to these things in all music, or only in hip-hop. Not long ago I had a discussion with someone at work about similar topics. He said that hip-hop that advocates violence has no place in our culture. I asked him if he wanted Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues" banned, as in that song he sings about killing a man just to watch him die. He insisted it was a different thing, but couldn't explain why.

Johnny wasn't glorifying that act of violence. In fact, he was doing the opposite.

 

A sizable portion of the rap/hip-hop I've heard glorifies a lifestyle that involves violence, greed, and misogyny. Not all, to be sure -- but it's certainly more pervasive in rap lyrics than in other genres, at least from what I've heard.

 

I'm sure there are white rock bands who glorify the same kinds of stuff ... and I won't listen to them for the same reasons. It's not a racial thing.

[OOO]

I'm just curious if all of those who have expressed problems with hip-hop lyrics object to these things in all music, or only in hip-hop. Not long ago I had a discussion with someone at work about similar topics. He said that hip-hop that advocates violence has no place in our culture. I asked him if he wanted Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues" banned, as in that song he sings about killing a man just to watch him die. He insisted it was a different thing, but couldn't explain why.

 

I'm not throwing any accusations toward anyone here, but I do think a there's some closet-racism attached to a lot of the anti-hip-hop ideas I've heard thrown around in the media in the last week. Please take this as more of a critique of the entire public debate on this subject rather than an assault on anyone here.

 

There is a lot of truth in what you are saying and I am partly guilty of making blanket statements about rap/hip-hop because i prefer rock, but there are some things I would point out

 

1. A lot of times it seems like sexually explicit content and words like "nigga'" seem to be the rule rather than the exception in MAINSTREAM rap/hip hop. If it were just a few songs, it would be one thing, but the pervasiveness of misogynistic lyrics makes it seem more a part of a culture than one or two songs by a particular artist. I don't think anyone here is a prude and gets particularly shocked by the actual content of one particular song, but rather it is the fact that it seems ingrained in the culture of the music.

 

2. I think your Johnny Cash example is good, but I think most of the people here are more concerned with misogyny implications rather than lyrics about killing. I don't think that violent lyrics are nearly as dangerous as those degrading women, because the degradation of women is a lot easier to accept and embrace than violence. Roughly 0% of the population will go out and kill people after hearing a rap song, but I think a lot more become accepting of seeing women as "ho's"

 

3. I have another example of lyrics from another genre that i know DO bug some people for similar (my mom in particular).

 

"Its down to me, yes it is;

The way she does just what shes told

Down to me, the change has come

Shes under my thumb"

 

She finds this degrading towards women and doesn't listen to any rolling stones because the song really bugs her. Whats my point? I'm not sure but I thought I'd bring it up.

 

Anyhow, my 2 cents.

[cryptique]

3. I have another example of lyrics from another genre that i know DO bug some people for similar (my mom in particular).

 

"Its down to me, yes it is;

The way she does just what shes told

Down to me, the change has come

Shes under my thumb"

 

She finds this degrading towards women and doesn't listen to any rolling stones because the song really bugs her. Whats my point? I'm not sure but I thought I'd bring it up.

I've always had trouble with that one myself. And those aren't even the worst lyrics in the song.

[MrRain422]

Johnny Cash sure doesn't rail against violence in that song. He may have meant it ironically, but the content of the song is the same. To a kid listening to it for the first time who doesn't know a thing about the performer, it's completely the same thing. Regardless, you're just proving my point that context does matter, as you're drawing a distinction between when it is okay and when it is not okay to write about certain things.

 

No one ever rails against violence or misogyny in books. We don't seem to have problems distinguishing the art from the artist in that context. Rarely do people fight violence or misogyny in movies the way they do in rap.

 

Also, this country has glorified the gangster in our movies, music, books, for our entire history. Mobsters, rebel cowboys, whatever, they're always shown to be total badasses. Gangster culture and gangsta culture are often portrayed in pretty much identical ways and yet the former doesn't have people talking about how it's infecting our youth.

 

Regardless, I think most of the people that I've seen on TV this week drawing parallels between Imus and rap music don't know a single thing about rap music or hip-hop culture. They're simply unqualified to make sweeping generalizations about it, and I sensed that race was a big reason why they were making those generalizations. That was really my beef to begin with.

[MrRain422]

1. A lot of times it seems like sexually explicit content and words like "nigga'" seem to be the rule rather than the exception in MAINSTREAM rap/hip hop. If it were just a few songs, it would be one thing, but the pervasiveness of misogynistic lyrics makes it seem more a part of a culture than one or two songs by a particular artist. I don't think anyone here is a prude and gets particularly shocked by the actual content of one particular song, but rather it is the fact that it seems ingrained in the culture of the music.

 

This is a fair point. However, I think an important question is, why are these the rap songs that are most popular? Is it because the popular rappers all decided that this is what they were going to rap about? Or is it because those are the subjects that people seem to buy?

 

Why is it that the people buying what is mainstream rap music are so interested in these subjects? I have no idea, but I know that if they were interested in hearing songs about fishing (or something) instead, then the radio would be full of songs about fishing.

 

I just want to say that I hope I'm not coming off as if I'm defending the music out there that truly is misogynistic or promoting violence. But I do think that that an entire genre is getting a bad rap from some people in the media who don't really know what they're talking about, and also that there's a certain point where too much is blamed on the people making the music rather than the people consuming the music.

[MrRain422]

Basically I just thought they weren't making a very good case for what rap music had to do with Imus saying what he did.

[anodyne]

All of this makes me want to revisit Bamboozled, which confronted these same issues--especially the free pass given to toxic hip-hop--some time back. It's flawed, but at the time I thought it was an important movie.

it's the only spike lee movie i've seen more than twice. i've suggested it to many of my students so that they might examine the "blackface on the inside" sort of phenomena. it was a heavy-handed flick, but had some seriously good acting and a very worthwhile message. good call.

[LouieB]

So, when does his new show on XM start?

Sometime next week I would guess....

 

LouieB

[Spawn's dad]

considering the present attempt to merge XM and Sirrius that's a pretty unlikely scenario.