Duck-Billed Catechist Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 You get it.I'm not sure that I do. :: eats everyone in thread:: ::wins:: Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 prove that every team doesn't. Just because the Pats win doesn't mean they constantly win by this method. Watch this season, we're under heavy scrutiny and will be watched closely for sure. I still believe we're one of the top teams in the NFL. I do believe we'll still have a successful season, and if I'm wrong, then I will admit that the Patriots' best days may have a mark of imperfection on then. We'll have to let the season speak for itself, and as for now, I guess Patriots fans will have to deal with this until the team can prove themselves. Believe me, I'm embarrassed to be a fan in this situation. It's not where you want to be, but I honestly don't think this represents all of the Patriots play. We're still a very good team. Look at that Kickoff return last week for instance, there's no way you can have an advantage on a kickoff, and we run it back 108 yards. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 prove that every team doesn't. Just because the Pats win doesn't mean they constantly win by this method. Watch this season, we're under heavy scrutiny and will be watched closely for sure. I still believe we're one of the top teams in the NFL. I do believe we'll still have a successful season, and if I'm wrong, then I will admit that the Patriots' best days may have a mark of imperfection on then. We'll have to let the season speak for itself, and as for now, I guess Patriots fans will have to deal with this until the team can prove themselves. Believe me, I'm embarrassed to be a fan in this situation. It's not where you want to be, but I honestly don't think this represents all of the Patriots play. We're still a very good team. Look at that Kickoff return last week for instance, there's no way you can have an advantage on a kickoff, and we run it back 108 yards. Actually, since you are the one who said every team does it, the burden of proof is on you. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 prove that every team doesn't.Why? Also, has anyone really suggested that the Pats aren't good and that they've been faking it all this time? Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't doubt that the Pats are guilty of videotaping the defensive signals, but I'm pretty "meh" over the whole thing. There's no way teams use the same hand signals for consecutive games - and if they do, they deserve to have their shit deciphered, plain and simple. Besides, all the camera man does is save having someone on the sideline recording all the defensive signals anyway. It's all done out in the open and anyone in the stadium can see everything that's being done on either sideline. Perhaps this will be the impetus for setting up the radio system for the defensive captains as well, although it's just as easy to steal RF transmissions as it is to surreptitiously video record and decipher hand signals... Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I do tend to think that every team does probably bend the rules in some regard to gain a competitive advantage. However, I have to wonder if every team does it to the extent the Patriots have. Apparently, they have quite the reputation throughout the league for this kind of stuff. The Pats have won their three titles by a total of 9 points: beat the Rams 20 - 17, beat the Panthers 32 - 29, beat the Eagles 24 - 21. They were just a little better than the other team each of those times. Perhaps we now know where the "a little better" came from. Perhaps not. Without more than we know now, I wouldn't say the Pats legacy is tarnished. However, this controversy does invite speculation. The result in football games can come down to one or two plays. If the Pats knew what to expect on those one or two plays, that's a significant advantage. Again though, this is only speculation. All I know for sure is, no matter what, Vinatieri was clutch. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't doubt that the Pats are guilty of videotaping the defensive signals, but I'm pretty "meh" over the whole thing. There's no way teams use the same hand signals for consecutive games - and if they do, they deserve to have their shit deciphered, plain and simple. Besides, all the camera man does is save having someone on the sideline recording all the defensive signals anyway. It's all done out in the open and anyone in the stadium can see everything that's being done on either sideline. Perhaps this will be the impetus for setting up the radio system for the defensive captains as well, although it's just as easy to steal RF transmissions as it is to surreptitiously video record and decipher hand signals... Thats why they are recording the signals during games. Anybody can study the game film from the previous game and see the signals, but what the Patriots did was record their signals during the game and decipher them during halftime. This is why it is a "problem". They also allegedly recorded the audibles via equipment on their d-linemen and matched up the calls with their video. Or something. I'm not 100% sure I understand everything they did. It's shady as hell, but probably hasn't won them too many games. Take away their 2nd round pick for next year and call it a day. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Thats why they are recording the signals during games. Anybody can study the game film from the previous game and see the signals, but what the Patriots did was record their signals during the game and decipher them during halftime. This is why it is a "problem". They also allegedly recorded the audibles via equipment on their d-linemen and matched up the calls with their video. Or something. I'm not 100% sure I understand everything they did. It's shady as hell, but probably hasn't won them too many games. Take away their 2nd round pick for next year and call it a day.Yeah, penalize them a pick or two and let it go. Change the rules, allow the defensive headsets, whatever. They still aren't doing anything some dude with a pen and paper can't do, if they are deciphering the signals during halftime. You can see the defensive sideline from the offensive sideline. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Yeah, penalize them a pick or two and let it go. Change the rules, allow the defensive headsets, whatever. They still aren't doing anything some dude with a pen and paper can't do, if they are deciphering the signals during halftime. You can see the defensive sideline from the offensive sideline. I think the problem comes from the fact that it allows them to analyze them more accurately. Sure a guy with a pen can do it, but would it be as accurate? Aside from the fact that it's blatantly against the rules. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Aside from the fact that it's blatantly against the rules.Like I said, penalize them and change the rule. It's a stupid rule. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 They still aren't doing anything some dude with a pen and paper can't do, if they are deciphering the signals during halftime. You can see the defensive sideline from the offensive sideline. I disagree. It may not be the perfect analogy, but in baseball, a third base coach goes to his cap, his nose, his elblow, his chest, his crotch etc and in many situations it's just one of those movements that signals the play. And one of those signals can wipe out everything that came before it. First, someone with a pen and paper wouldn't be able to write all those movements down quickly enough so a video camera is a real difference and advantage. And second, a video camera allows you to take the film into the clubhouse at halftime and play and rewind, play and rewind, compare and contrast, replay again, etc. to try to find patterns. I dont know if its the perfect analogy but I have to think that signs in football are as complex if not more than they are in baseball. The Pats would not have been using a video camera if it was as easy to do it with a pen and paper. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Like I said, penalize them and change the rule. It's a stupid rule. Definitely. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I disagree. It may not be the perfect analogy, but in baseball, a third base coach goes to his cap, his nose, his elblow, his chest, his crotch etc and in many situations it's just one of those movements that signals the play. And one of those signals can wipe out everything that came before it. First, someone with a pen and paper wouldn't be able to write all those movements down quickly enough so a video camera is a real difference and advantage. And second, a video camera allows you to take the film into the clubhouse at halftime and play and rewind, play and rewind, compare and contrast, replay again, etc. to try to find patterns. I dont know if its the perfect analogy but I have to think that signs in football are as complex if not more than they are in baseball. The Pats would not have been using a video camera if it was as easy to do it with a pen and paper.Oh, I know it makes it easier, having video of the signals, and there's no question Belichick is trying to get away with something. I also have no doubt that every other team in the league has some system in place to intercept the other team's defensive signs (and probably the offensive headset signals as well), and I'm certain the Pats aren't the only team trying to get away with illegally videotaping defensive hand signals. The Pats got caught, and they should lose a draft pick or two. Then the NFL should either make video interception of defensive signals legal or allow defensive plays to be transmitted electronically to the on-field defensive captain, just as offensive plays go directly to the quarterback's helmet. Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 "you can bet everybody is trying to steal in some way. In fact, you can go to any NFL game and you'll find some coach whose sole job is to look for defensive signals." a longtime NFL assistant coach told ESPN.com Penalize the Pats, take away a few draft picks, even forfeit the game. I'm ashamed that we got caught, but I think The Pats will move on and prevail. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) And remember when Lawrence Taylor said he used to send hookers up to the hotel rooms of opposing running backs while he sat at home doing blow? I mean, are we taking away the '86 Giants' Super Bowl championship too? Come on, already. This stuff happens.And who said New Yorkers are unfriendly? Though, to be fair, Lawrence should have shared some his blow. Edited September 13, 2007 by bjor№_skurj Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 $750K Fine, Draft Pick Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 part of the official Pat's statement: "As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress." I believe him. Fair ruling, let's play football. Link to post Share on other sites
boywiththorninside Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 part of the official Pat's statement: "As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress." I believe him. Fair ruling, let's play football. Do you believe Belichick merely mis-interpreted the rule as was said later in the statement? Belichick mis-interpreted the rule even after the NFL specifically warned all 32 teams not to use videotape in this manner? See, right there, for me, the guy's got no credibility. I believe the Pats would have beaten the Jets last week, but I don't believe for a second that they have never used a tape during the course of a game. Why tape the other team if you're not going to use it? I know, they were going to use the tape to prepare for future games. However, from what I've read, because of the prevalence of sign stealing, etc., most teams change signals from game to game - especially against division opponents. Thus, the videotape would most likely be useless in the future. My bottom line: Belichick's a liar and probably a cheat (depending on your moral universe - if everyone does it, is it cheating?). Other than that, I'm with you. The Pats got their wrist slap. Time to play football. Big game with the Chargers. My money's on the Pats - with or without the videotaping. Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 In other news, Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson got suspended for five games recently when it came to light he used HGH to help him get an erection... Link to post Share on other sites
benjamin Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Big game with the Chargers. My money's on the Pats - with or without the videotaping. Tomlinson and Gates is were my moolah is! I'd love to see that TD connection again & again & again. Link to post Share on other sites
So Long Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Tomlinson and Gates is were my moolah is! I'd love to see that TD connection again & again & again. I guess you've gotta want somebody to score since the Lions never seem to. OH! SNAP! Link to post Share on other sites
benjamin Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I guess you've gotta want somebody to score since the Lions never seem to. OH! SNAP! oh no you didn't!?!?!?!?! hopefully that changes this year. I heard the Lioin shut down ford field last year midseason. Apparently there was a potentially hazardous rare white powdery substance on the field. Turns out it was the endzone. Link to post Share on other sites
rghammo Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 In other news, Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson got suspended for five games recently when it came to light he used HGH to help him get an erection... http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?sectio...&id=3001066 "Wilson said he purchased the substance last fall to help him deal with the impact of diabetes. He has had problems with fatigue, kidney function, vision and sleep patterns because of the illness." Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 He also did not consult a doctor . The espn article left out the impotence part, but it's been mentioned in other media outlets. Link to post Share on other sites
Boots Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Tomlinson and Gates is were my moolah is! I'd love to see that TD connection again & again & again. LT was my top QB and RB last week in Fantasy Football. Link to post Share on other sites
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